AIBU to whinge about the SNP?

[SaucyJack]

I didn't vote for the SNP. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the option as I live in England.

Yet they now have the third biggest say on policies that directly affect me.

Is this fair and democratic?

I suspect the reason they voted on tuition fees is for the same reason NS says they will vote on NHS budgeting issues - because they affected UK wide budgets, the Barnett formula, and thus how much Scotland would have to spend on the Scottish side of the same issue.

I believe that it is no longer true that Scotland has a larger number of MPs relatively than other parts of the UK - for the 2005 election the number of constituencies was reduced from 72 to 59.

WhereYouLeftIt - for me, the difference between the SNP and the Liberals/LibDems - is that the other third parties attempt to represent the whole of the UK - they have candidates standing in most, if not all constituencies, and have UK-wide focus for their policies, whereas the SNP is a purely Scottish party, which has no focus on or mandate from any other part of the UK.

Their core policy is Scottish independence - at least, that's what comes across from them - and I don't trust them to put the UK's needs ahead of Scotland's, if there was a conflict.

There's a table there...there's not a huge difference between Scotland and anywhere else between how many of the electorate have an MP.

Chandler for someone that doesnt even live in Scotland and mentions it a lot on these threads how glad you are to have moved away it's strange how you go on about the SNP not "representing" you - obviously they don't!

That is it SGT. People felt that, when there was conflict, the SNP would put Scotland ahead of the UK as a whole. The aim of independence made many English voters very , very wary.

Each individual MP is there to represent the interests of their individual consitiency. It doesn't matter if a person in England cannot vote for the SNP or any regional party- why would you want to? Their policies are not there to represent your interest. In the same way all constituencies have smaller local parties standing who will not stand nationally. I did not vote SNP, but in some ways I am pleased to have a party who will club together to represent my interests as I think national parties are to quick to tow the party line, regardless of the impact of individual constituents.

CrystalCove Chandler for someone that doesnt even live in Scotland and mentions it a lot on these threads how glad you are to have moved away it's strange how you go on about the SNP not "representing" you - obviously they don't!

I'm Scottish, have lived nearly all my life in Scotland, still own (another) small property there and am eligible to vote (and did vote).

Why the bleep would you want to deny me a voice?

I dare say it would suit the SNP very well if they drove away the people with the ability to criticise them, but (a) not everyone is likely to put up and shut up, so its not going to happen and (b) if they want to succeed in the long term, they and their supporters are going to have to stop scoring dumb own goals like this.

LikeICan way to ratchet up the intelligence factor in this debate.

I bet you also shied away from voting Labour because of the way Ed Milliband eats a bacon sandwich.

I've not read the whole thread, but given that the tories have a majority, as long as all Tories vote on the party line, then it doesn't matter that there are a large number of SNPs or Labour or anyone else, the Tories will still decide everything over the next 5 years (for better or worse). That's the way a majority works... And that is why a majority is considered so important - it renders the other parties impotent, other than complaining loudly...

"1.45 million votes 56 seats - SNP (4.9% of the vote)
3.8 million votes, 1 seats - UKIP (12.6% of the vote)

How is that democratic?"

It ain't! If I was a UKIP voter I would be pissed off. I reckon Farage is in it for the long game and will be back.

"The SNP deserve their win. They can't do their sums. They do stoke up grievence, they can be overweening, they cry wolf and they have Alex Salmond."

Whether they deserve their win or not, I am very worried. I live in Scotland and I voted Lib Dem (yeah, just me and my mate!). SNP are in here, like most of Scotland and, after the tactics during the IndyRef, I am worried.
The meddling with the justice system, the crazy 'don't worry about oil price we can spend our way out of debt' nonsense, the meddling with the NHS, the horrible Curriculum for Excrement. Aaargh. Plus the anti-English baiting (not all SNP but a vocal minority who the leadership are loathe to silence).

Other option is Tories, south of border. Horrible.

BUT I do think Indy is closer now. I predict Cameron will chuff on about 'one nation' politics, give almost nowt to Scotland and Eck and Nic will call another IndyRef within 2 years

I actually like Ed Miliband, & I speak as a Tory! - but sorry, there's just something a bit sinister about Nicola Sturgeon.

OP, Labour, according to your premise, now have the second biggest say in how the country is run. Don't hear you whining about that though.

Or are your whines muffled by the pages of the Daily Mail that you've clearly been swallowing for weeks on end?

A bit sinister? Well then, case closed, Like. Fuck sake.

But I apologise for saying she looks like one of the Krankies - it was childish. ( although I lost count of the times Ed Milibands appearance was slaughtered )

There is huge variation in how councils choose to spend their money... These are choices made on a local level. They can't blame the Scottish government for everything!

I second this. But I also second the same sentiment with 'devolved parliament' and 'they can't blame Westminster for everything!' substituted. At least if the SNP are now part of the machine, perhaps now they'll grow up and reject this 'it's all the big boy's fault' rhetoric. Which might, actually, win them some voters.

TheChandler

" I speak to friends who have this awful feeling of dread which started before the Referendum and has never gone away. You just do not know what they are going to do next. Theres a tendency to disrespect democratic rights, such as freedom of information or public procurement rules, and to not publish information about it. Which makes it very difficult to enforce your democratic rights. And then so many local courts have been closed by the SNP."

Couldn't agree more. There was a post in the Telegraph recently about the SNP riding a coach and horses through legal affairs (sorry not v specific, will have to hunt for it) and they tolerate NO dissent from their party members either. The C for E is highly politicised (imo) and 16 year olds were 'given' the vote by Eck in the IndyRef as they were likely to vote Yes. Kids and teachers in my kids school were wearing: 'see me, I'm SNP' badges all week (before during and after election). My kids have been told their English parents would have been 'on the wrong side' in history lessons and that learning difficulties are down to 'having an English accent'.

I would love to get out of Scotland as I really don't like the way it is going.

IHaveTo If you can find and link to that article, that would be great - would be very interested to read it.

While the fact that even if every Scottish constituency had voted labour we'd have still ended up with a Tory government is true, I think that NS's rhetoric in the last few days of the campaign about holding Westminster to account and making Scottish voices heard (roaring lions etc )probably did quite a bit of damage. It was too strong, came across as bullying and I should imagine caused quite a few wavering English voters to put their cross against the Tory candidate.

I now hope that the Scottish government start to put in place some of their policies and promises rather than STILL blaming Westminster for their inability to act, because Westminster hold the pursestrings. Scotland under the SNP have much more autonomy than any of the other constituent parts of the UK including England, and the excuses will not wash any more.

The only way they're going to convert previous No voters in the next Indyref next month whenever it is, is to prove they can implement their promises.

Roaring lions was Alex Salmond, not Nicola Sturgeon, and we all know he's a bit of an old ham.

Chandler I didn't say you should be denied a right to vote - so stop trying to twist my words. You can't be represented by the SNP - because you don't live in Scotland - that's my point. You have stated over and over again in other threads how much you dislike the SNP and also how glad you are you moved out if the country so it doesn't really matter how many houses you still own there. Whatever country you are in you will be represented there.

I find it deeply ironic that there has been literally no change in terms of how undemocratic our 'democratic system' is, but it's only being complained about vociferously now it isn't benefiting only Labour and the Conservatives

Bullshit! Don't try and suggest that there is some anti-Scottish agenda here. People have been complaining about it for years!! The fact that UKIP would stand to do better surely tells you that this isn't just about the SNP getting less seats.

CrystalCove Chandler I didn't say you should be denied a right to vote - so stop trying to twist my words. You can't be represented by the SNP - because you don't live in Scotland - that's my point.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now - you have lost me. Of course the SNP MP represents his/her constituents. You do know that anyone who leaves the UK is entitled to vote in their last constituency for up to 15 years? Or perhaps you missed the part about my still owning a property there (it was the family home we sold, not my own small property). I also pay tax there.

I think some people in Scotland need to stop getting over-excited about people who move away for whatever reason (usually work) wiping out all rights in an instance. That's not actually what happens. Although clearly for the SNP it would be very convenient if it did.

Scotland under the SNP have much more autonomy than any of the other constituent parts of the UK including England, and the excuses will not wash any more

^

This exactly. They should be given full fiscal autonomy (whilst at the same time delivering more power for England to have its own say on it's own affairs without outside interference) and let's see how the anti-austerity approach works! I am genuinely interested. It would be a fascinating social and economic experiment to see the Tory plans and the SNP plans play out side by side

DamnBamboo - I would be with you on that if I didn't have to live here! Wouldn't mind watching the car crash from a distance. Actually, that's not true, I would mind a great deal watching the country slide into financial mire and obscurity.