AIBU to whinge about the SNP?

[SaucyJack]

I didn't vote for the SNP. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the option as I live in England.

Yet they now have the third biggest say on policies that directly affect me.

Is this fair and democratic?

Scotland under devolution has more autonomy, not Scotland under the SNP.

Chandler - it doesn't matter if you are "entitled" to vote, I'm not disagreeing with that. You don't live here - and aren't coming back judging by your posts - so will not be affected by how well or otherwise the SNP look after public services for example.

As to wiping out rights, I couldn't care less how many people do or do not move away from Scotland. You're the only one on here that had stated they've moved away, and slating the SNP constantly.

it was me who made the post about labour being good enough for the rest of the UK but not Scotland. I think it may read differently to how I meant it.
The morning after the election I had many of my Scottish friends complaining we had voted in a majority tory gvt, they were hoping for a labour minority so the SNP could do a deal.

I was questioning why if the majority of Scottish voters decided a labour gvt wasn't the best choice for them WHY are they surprised that the rest of the UK clearly had the same thoughts and decided to vote for another party. I was not suggesting that if Scotland had voted totally Labour we wouldn't have a Tory majority, I am aware the outcome would have been the same.

Thanks for explaining that MissMooMoo.

"I was questioning why if the majority of Scottish voters decided a labour gvt wasn't the best choice for them WHY are they surprised that the rest of the UK clearly had the same thoughts and decided to vote for another party."
MissMooMoo, I think the mismatch, for want of a better word, comes down to the difference between the Scottish Labour Party and the wider Labour Party. I no longer live in Scotland, but I can still remember the 'put a red rosette on a monkey and it'll be voted in' truismattitude. Scottish Labour were complacent and arrogant, and took their electorate for granted. They were perceived as the unquestioning cannon fodder of the Labour leadership, rather than as local MPs representing the interests of their constituency. SNP stepped into the void.

CrystalCove Chandler - it doesn't matter if you are "entitled" to vote, I'm not disagreeing with that. You don't live here - and aren't coming back judging by your posts - so will not be affected by how well or otherwise the SNP look after public services for example.

I can never work out whether some of the SNP supporters are simply blinded by sentiment, which causes them to get irrationally upset when someone exercises their free movement rights, or whether they are just thick. Possibly with some, it is a combination of the two.

Quite clearly, anyone with a right to vote in a country is going to be affected by how well the SNP look after public services in many ways. They are the Government. Any legislation they pass may impact on any citizen, and it is from Scotland, as part of the UK, that my citizenship rights derive. If it goes, it is not replaced by anything else. Now, I don't particularly care about being Scottish blahblahblah, but I do care about accuracy and know when someone is talking utter drivel about a subject they have almost no proper understanding on.

I'd love you to tell the many expat workers here, that (a) nothing the SNP does affects them and (b) they won't be coming back, because well, some random person decided their future for them, on some kind of grandiose omnipotence. They'd flay you, and that's just for breakfast!

Maybe you think someone going out of the country for a few weeks should temporarily lose citizenship? Maybe Scots should sign a pledge saying they revoke or retain citizenship, each and every time they leave the country? Or do you think we should exempt those who go on long holidays? How about pensioners who don't work, but go to their holiday homes in Spain for 4 months every winter?

I think you need to learn a little about citizenship law, and educate yourself on the subject before you start spouting off nonsense.

Bullshit! Don't try and suggest that there is some anti-Scottish agenda here. People have been complaining about it for years!! The fact that UKIP would stand to do better surely tells you that this isn't just about the SNP getting less seats.

That wasn't quite what I meant. Some people (including the SNP!) have been saying this for years, but this is the first time I've seen it become a popular issue if that makes any sense. To me it comes back to the media, which who basically blackballed electoral reform a very few years ago - because the undemocratic system was advantaging the two-party system. Now it's not benefiting those two main parties and suddenly it's a headline issue that everyone, not just the electoral reform sociey, are getting passionate about. FPTP has been just as unfair and just as damaging to small parties like the Greens and, yes, UKIP, in past elections as well.

tabulahrasa

Fair enough, the difference wasn't as big as I thought it was - Scotland has 8.57% of the electorate and just over 9% of the seats, according to that table.

That wasn't quite what I meant. Some people (including the SNP!) have been saying this for years, but this is the first time I've seen it become a popular issue if that makes any sense

It's because other parties now have louder voices and more of a political presence and so it affects them (and us too) more. FPTP works ok if just two parties, but clearly we've moved on from that. Exciting times. I think a series of coalitions would be far more progressive than either a blue or a red government. I would hate to have UKIP MP but it is fundamentally wrong how few seats they got (1) with just shy of 4 million votes when the SNP got 56 with just under 1.5 millions votes. Just wrong.

And anyway, the electoral reforms suggested was that of AV, which I understand to be not much better (fairer) than FPTP and far more complicated for a variety of reasons.

I'm not spouting nonsense, couldnt care less about citizenship law or anything else you want to quote to me, you are never going to be affected by SNP policies not living here in the same way someone living here will. That is all.

And you yourself have said there is little chance of you ever returning.

I'm Scottish and feel quite upset at all the hostility towards Scotland during this whole campaign. The Tories, Labour and Lib Dems all wanted us to stay in the "united" Kingdom and now everyone hates us for having our say.....

The SNP are absolutely masterful at introducing cuts and then blaming them on either Westminster or local authorities. They are in power in the Scottish parliament. They have control over the block grant. they've been in power for what, 7,8 years? They have to take some responsibility for cuts to public services. Also, some of those councils who have made cuts to public services are SNP run. Who are they blaming there?

Many comments from other parts of the UK have been very positive about the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

I think the Labour Party is in trouble in other parts of the mainland UK but there wasn't such a clear alternative choice as in Scotland.

"I'm Scottish and feel quite upset at all the hostility towards Scotland during this whole campaign."

I think it was definitely an anti SNP campaign rather than Scotland, but I know how it came across to many people I know was, your voice should only be heard if you vote for one of us.. which I think actually increased support for SNP.

I suspect the reason they voted on tuition fees is for the same reason NS says they will vote on NHS budgeting issues - because they affected UK wide budgets, the Barnett formula, and thus how much Scotland would have to spend on the Scottish side of the same issue.
yes, and that's precisely how they should vote.
i.e scottish MPs should vote to screw over English people as much as possible to ensure that the most money possible goes to Scotland.

-I tried to make it clear in that particular debate Scottish national party MPs actually voted that there should not be tuition fees. - it was Scottish Labour MPs that ensured that their core support (i.e young working class students) were royally screwed over.

The point was more to say: whilst everyone likes to pretend that Scottish MPs have a great and decent sense of fairness, and abstain from voting on matters affecting only the English. that is not true.

Erm, no, not antique name, MPs should vote to distribute money fairly across the uk, wherever they are from. That's because MPs represent their constituents at a uk level.

Well you're both sort of right, in that I agree that MPs kind of should be trying to put their constituency first, but maybe not at the detriment to the whole country?

I suspect the SNP vote against tuition fees also had a lot to do with the fact that Scotland has quite often received a lot of pressure to reintroduce tuition fees politically and also because it's become something people associate very strongly with SNP...even though they were abolished under a labour/lib dem coalition, lol.

Ooh, that made it sound like I get to decide who is right...that would be fun

I meant, well I think you're both sort of right.

I'm incredibly worried and upset about the SNP landslide.

There is an aggressive and bullying side to them which feels very undemocratic to me.

There is an aggressive and bullying side to them which feels very undemocratic to me.

As opposed to the charming and fair alternatives? How can it seem undemocratic? Realistically they have extremely limited powers in Westminster - since when does even the shadow cabinet get a big say never mind the third party.

YANBU to have a whinge about the SNP, if that's what you want to do.

However, despite all the posturing, the SNP aren't likely to have much influence at Westminster despite the number of seats they have. And realistically, this is probably the best they're ever going to do. The maximum number of seats they can ever get is 58 - while Scotland is still part of the UK, of course - which I think it will be for at least the next 10 years.

I suspect that their support will begin to decline over the course of this parliament once reality sets in and people realise they can't actually do that much.

The Tories have enough of a majority that they don't need the support of any other parties - even if the SNP forms an unofficial voting bloc with (say) Plaid Cymru and the the Labour Party.

That's not to say Alex Salmond won't enjoy himself mind you; he's had more comebacks than a particularly resilient jack in the box and will not easily relinquish his grasp on any bit of power he can get.

Actually I've thought about it logically, and I've decided I was being unreasonable.

Anyone can form a political party with their own agenda and run for parliament in whatever part of the country they like.

There's no reason why I can't form the English National Party, and have purely English MPs pushing a pro-England agenda quite simply other than the fact I can't really be arsed.

It's entirely fair and democratic tho. IABU.

Well said OP!