AIBU to whinge about the SNP?

[SaucyJack]

I didn't vote for the SNP. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the option as I live in England.

Yet they now have the third biggest say on policies that directly affect me.

Is this fair and democratic?

Round of applause for SaucyJack!

Call it the Saucy Jack party and you would probably get more votes than a lot of the others

CrystalCove And you yourself have said there is little chance of you ever returning.

You are beginning to creep me out. Do you stalk my life or something? What on earth are you sticking your nose into my personal business of where I chose to live in future and what constituency I vote in? I own a property in Scotland and am eligible to vote there - why on earth do you keep making these strange irrelevant comments? Do you imagine that anyone who ever leaves Scotland immediately becomes citizen of whatever country they move to?

If that really is the SNP line, which I assume you think it ought to be, as you support them, then the SNP are in deep trouble. Quite possibly, statistically, if you surveyed expats, you might find that they are less likely to vote for the SNP. However, since the SNP regularly trawl out celebrities who aren't eligible to vote (Alan Cumming and Sean Connery spring to mind) at all, I wouldn't have thought it was a principle that troubled them greatly.

Alternatively, if the SNP do wish to encourage an insular, inward looking economy where Scots are discouraged what they have always done so well - going out into the wider world and working, then they are certainly going the right way about it.

If you are a person that has barely moved from their place of birth and to whom the idea of working in a foreign country is something so incredibly inconceivable that you don't understand it, then kindly stick your head back into your own business and keep it out of mine.

And to be honest OP, if you called it the "Saucy Jack Socialist Nationalist Party", you would probably have a high number of people signing up to it, no matter what its policies turned out like in practice.

Did you get your vote Chandler? I'll take a wild guess and say it didn't matter anyway, you got an SNP MP regardless?

It arrived on the Monday before the Election, ScotsWhaeHae, and I posted it back straight away next day delivery (for those who are unaware, I was removed from the Electoral Register in Scotland 5 weeks before the General Election, although by that point, I was eligible to be on it again at that date, hence I applied for an overseas postal vote which arrived very late).

My vote did count - it allowed me to exercise my right to vote, and it is included in the statistics for this election, and always will be. And that's as much as I expect in a democracy (until we get pr at least). I was however born in a constituency in Scotland which did not return an SNP MP - thank goodness people in our part of Scotland still have sense.

I think you and some other SNP supporters show a pretty horrific attitude to democracy actually, and as I said before, the SNP needs to stop scoring own goals.

Chandler get over yourself, Im not stalking you, you take great delight on these threads going on about how much you're glad you've moved away, I dont need to stalk you. Stick my nose in your personal business...that you post all over the internet..righty ho then

"I think you and some other SNP supporters show a pretty horrific attitude to democracy actually"

Like the people complaining that the SNP MPs weren't fairly elected even though they were in the system we have?

I'd love to know how many people complaining here and in other threads about the results of the FPTP system, actually voted for PR in the referendum four years ago (or indeed, bothered to vote at all).

The Scottish people legitimately elected SNP MPs as their representatives. Funnily enough, that's their democratic prerogative! As it happens, the overall election result means that the Scottish MPs will have only limited influence in parliament, but if they had been in the position of being kingmakers - so what? Both labour and the conservatives were in favour of Scotland remaining part of the UK. You don't get to retain the Union (and those oil revenues) while denying the people of Scotland the right to democratic representation.

(Personally I dislike nationalism of all types and I'd rather the SNP hadn't done so well - but that's democracy).

Agree Misti. I'm not particularly keen on the SNP myself but this is the system we have and they've been elected legitimately.

Do you think the current system is fair, then, tabulahrasa? Is it fair that 50% of the votes in Scotland resulted in only 7% of the Westminster seats?

Would you be happy if the SNP had won only 3 seats with 50% of the vote?

I think there has always been a pressing case for electoral reform - I remember discussing it back in the early 80s, in my A-level politics classes, where we examined the different electoral systems, and it was obvious that the FPTP system favoured the two major parties, to the huge detriment of the others. What is equally clear, is that the two major parties are highly unlikely to change a system that benefits them so much - and I suspect that would apply whichever parties were in power. For example - if the LibDems won an overall majority, under FPTP, and it looked as if they had moved into being one of the top two parties, do we honestly think they'd radically change the system that had put them in power for one that would remove that power? My cynical side says no.

No I don't think it's fair, I never have, but I don't think it's suddenly an issue because it favoured a different party for a change.

All of a sudden FPTP is an issue for lots of people who have never questioned it before, because it returned a result they didn't like.

At least it is sparking some real political debate - that has to be a good thing.

SDTG as it happens, the FPTP system did benefit the SNP this time, because they are now the largest party in Scotland. They got 56 out of 59 seats based on 50% of the popular vote. The labour party received 24% of the Scottish vote but one seat.

I'm Scottish and have happily lived in the South of England for years. I seem to be hearing and reading quite a bit of anti scottish feeling going on. I think its one off those cases where the scots were usually ignored, mocked a little and patronised benevolently - until the past few years when they started getting a bit uppity and above themselves and I've seen a different side to the feeling about them.

"At least it is sparking some real political debate - that has to be a good thing."

Oh yes, the more people engaged the better...

Though I could do without the SNP voters are mindless drones, labour voters are stupid, Tory voters are baby killers stuff that's been everywhere

*actually voted for PR in the referendum four years ago

It wasn't PR four years ago. It was AV. Completely different and AV isn't necessarily better than FPTP.

tabulahrasa Like the people complaining that the SNP MPs weren't fairly elected even though they were in the system we have?

You cannot distinguish between hecklers from one party telling voters that their votes don't count and that they shouldn't discuss the matter, from people having a sensible discussion about constitutional and voting reform?

The SNP constantly produces vast amounts of rhetoric about the latter. There isn't some magic rule that means only the SNP can do that, or set the agenda of topics that can be discussed, and we are in the midst of unprecedented levels of constitutional change in the UK.

It was great watching the photo calls yesterday with the 56 and Nicola. I'm looking forward to seeing how they get on at Westminster and some very lively debates.

tabulahrasa No I don't think it's fair, I never have, but I don't think it's suddenly an issue because it favoured a different party for a change.

FPTP favoured the SNP in Scotland at the last General Election too, at the expense of the conservatives: 491,000 votes resulting in 6 seats to 412,000 voters resulting in 1 seat. The Lib Dems were also favoured to some extent: 465,000 votes resulting in 11 seats.

Scotland does seem to have different voting patterns, but without getting bogged down in the rhetoric of socialism and left wing versus right wing, perhaps its more prone to cluster type voting?

I'm not complaining about anyone discussing PR or electoral reform or the fact that it's unfair btw, just the moaning about one particular party getting a good result.

To me it doesn't matter which party is benefitting from it, it's still not fair.

Much as it would gall me personally to have more conservative MPs, I don't think it's fair that conservative voters in Scotland aren't well represented and I do think that is a problem.

As someone who has habitually voted Liberal/LibDem (though not this time), I am used to my vote being pretty much worthless - but the result in Scotland has made me feel my vote was even more worthless than usual.

I've voted lib dem in the past, precisely because it's frustrating to feel like votes are worthless, so I really didn't intend to sound like I was lumping anyone discussing the electoral system in as one big homogenous mass.

PR has other issues, but, I think it's a better system for engaging the electorate and fairer for representing different viewpoints.

One good thing that I think came out of the referendum is that people did engage, that when they felt like they got a voice they used it.