AIBU to whinge about the SNP?

[SaucyJack]

I didn't vote for the SNP. Not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't have the option as I live in England.

Yet they now have the third biggest say on policies that directly affect me.

Is this fair and democratic?

Since the SNP's ultimate aim is independence, you can hardly accuse them of trying to take over the UK

Who on this thread has said this? How on earth is UKIP, given the number of votes, a minority compared with the SNP, who are arguably almost extreme left. Why should the SNP be more represented by them in a house where 60 million who are otherwise represented, people can't even vote for them.

Nearly 4 million people voted for UKIP, 1.5 million for SNP.

I would abstain rather than vote for UKIP, but the system is flawed.

As for them having the third biggest say on policies, they have a small fraction of the say compared to Labour and Tory when it comes to votes in the Commons.

1.45 million votes 56 seats - SNP (4.9% of the vote)
3.8 million votes, 1 seats - UKIP (12.6% of the vote)

How is that democratic?

"So you think that SNP/Plaid Cymru/Scottish Greens/NI parties should not be allowed to stand in general elections?"

I don't honestly know. Perhaps that is what I'm saying. AFAIA this is an entirely new problem. No other regional party ( or whatever the technical term is) has ever had anything like the amount of representation in the UK parliament before.

Just to remind those who seem to be missing the point; this doesn't really compare to the Tories or Labour. Those are UK wide parties which we all had the choice (or not) to vote for.

England, Wales and NI cannot vote for the SNP. They were not elected by us, yet they are now the third biggest party in the UK parliament.

Yes, but they are representing Scotland which is a part of the UK - against their own wishes.

They get to vote on things that affect England etc. – however they will not win any of those votes outright and never could because their number of seats is limited to a small proportion (even if they had every Scottish seat). So they would only be able to influence a vote that there was already a lot of support for in Westminster among UK-wide parties anyway. They will not be able to pass extreme pro-Scottish, unfair England-bashing laws.

I suppose you can see a situation like this as part of a progression – of Scotland out of the UK. It doesn't make much sense as a snapshot, but over the course of several elections it's what a country goes through as one part of it moves to break off. I now think that is what will happen within say 10 years.

I live in SE England and I welcome the influence of the SNP. I think they have great calibre in their politicians - passion, intelligence, strength and the ability to articulate well. I'm rather jealous.

Brilliant to see the young female student get in - as a woman in my 50s I wondered where this type of young woman had gone. Up North is where.

Anyway - they'll be a wonderful thorn in the Tory sides and keep them on their toes with some brilliant Parliamentary debates on issues not just about Scotland.

You can't say that you want Scotland as part of the UK, better together, etc, etc, and then complain when the Scottish don't vote in the same way as the English.

Fundamentally, Scotland is more left leaning than England. You either accept that this means we will vote differently (i.e. not for labour, if they shift too far right, as they have done), or you accept that it means that the two countries are very different and should be separate. You can't say - we want Scotland to stay in the union, but we want them to vote as if they were English.

So if SNP etc had some candidates in England, Wales and NI would the result be more acceptable? Their manifesto was not solely about Scotland. I'm fairly certain they would have gained more votes, though probably no more seats.

Sturgeon is in favour of electoral reform and supports proportional representation.

floatisrechargednow

You are now my MN crush. It depresses me that so few people south of the border seem to be able to understand this.

You can't force parties to stand in places they don't want to! I really don't see a way to resolve it other than PR, which UK voted against. I'm currently represented by Plaid Cymru, who have zero impact in Westminster at all, so I can see how things like this may feel unfair, but it is an artifact of the system the UK electorate has chosen, democratically.

It's also not true that if people had voted Labour rather than SNP, there would be a labour majority- sadly, they still wouldn't be if current results are used. I am glad I have moved out of Scotland so I don't have that kind of angst tbh.

The UK voted against AV not PR.
The are different.

Perhaps the SNP should field some candidates south of the border....

Perhaps the SNP should field some candidates south of the border

Even if one doesn't agree with their policies, the fact that one has the opportunity to vote for them would make their influence in Westminster more palatable certainly

Cat, great post. Ive learnt so much this election from mumsnet. Thank you. Maybe PR is the way to go?

FPTP isn't about winning the majority of votes but the majority of constituencies.

The 4 nations of the UK are represented entirely proportionally so the number of seats Scotland has is entirely (or as closely as it can be) in proportion to the size of the electorate. (Wales is slightly overrepresented in the number of seats they have)

UKIP were unable to concentrate their vote but spread it out hence large numbers voting not translating into winning anything other than one constituency (as it currently stands)

As for not being able to vote for a particular party - that is entirely down to the parties who choose whether or not to put up candidates. My ballot paper had 4 choices - Con, Lib, Lab, SNP. My brother who lives 2 miles away had the choice of candidates from 8 parties.

No voting system is entirely fair but the UK has traditionally favoured a two party system as it was believed this would promote stable government.
PR favours a multiparty system which would be more likely to result in coalitions.

I think we need electoral reform too. For the SNP to get 50% of the vote but 93% of the seats, leaves me feeling completely disenfranchised and disillusioned.

Float Brilliant to see the young female student get in - as a woman in my 50s I wondered where this type of young woman had gone. Up North is where.

Are you serious? Most of them are probably concentrating on graduating and getting jobs. She hasn't "gone" anywhere - she has lived in Glasgow all her life. I don't think a politician with no real life experience, aged only 20, of whatever gender, is anything that a party has to be proud of. SNP has form for this, with Calum McCaig in Aberdeen entering politics I believe as a teenager.

Brilliant to see the young female student get in - as a woman in my 50s I wondered where this type of young woman had gone. Up North is where.

You know she's a bigot, right? Her (now cleaned up) Twitter feed is appalling. I'm all about young women claiming their place in politics but she got in because she's a Nat in the right place at the right time.

Well in some respects you're right - I'm not being completely serious, but generally I am. I've yet to meet the perfect person who has said and done the right thing since birth and politicians not allowed to be imperfect humans gives us this bland prototype we have had for so long.

Not very many politicians have much life experience anyway and I'd rather give a 20 year old student, a female who doesn't feel the need to overdo her hair, shovel make up on, etc to be palatable (my personal choice) and who has the guts to give it a go - a chance over a moulded careerist.

I think that, given the way the English results went, the results in Scotland are the best that could have happened in Scotland. At least Scotland has a unified voice, from a party which had Scotland's best interests at heart.

Under the present system, of course it's 'fair and democratic'. The SNP stood, people voted for them, they return MP's. It really is just a case of better together, but you kilt wearing weirdos can stand over there and shut up, if you don't mind, with some people.

PC, the DUP etc only stood in a small number of seats too, you know.

Back on my original track...I think given the English results, the Scottish result is a good result for England too.

A better result would have been the Tories needing just 1 more MP to form government - step forward Caroline Lucas. Oh well....

And there was me thinking we were Better Together.

Scotland needs representation in parliament just like any other area. Who they vote fir is irrelevant unless you want to go down the route of banning political parties.