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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think you shouldn't insult someone just because they voted differently to you?

362 replies

ibitemythumbatyou · 08/05/2015 09:23

It feels like a lot of you would feel more at home in a dictatorship.

I've seen people being called stupid, selfish etc just because they decided to vote differently

I don't care who anyone voted for. I do care that we are a nation that allows everyone to vote for who they want without the threat of violence.

OP posts:
wigglylines · 09/05/2015 14:12

Semantics? FFS.

So if your son died because he had been left starving and hungry and unable to control his diabetes, and someone asked you how he was, would you say he was "unhappy"?

peedoffblue · 09/05/2015 14:12

Can you do it? It seems not so far ...

I did it right at the beginning, you just didn't understand.

Anyway, I would love to 'debate' you further but I have to go to work.

ibitemythumbatyou · 09/05/2015 14:15

So if your son died because he had been left starving and hungry and unable to control his diabetes, and someone asked you how he was, would you say he was "unhappy"?

Can you show me a case of someone dying from starvation and unable to control their diabetes as a direct cause of a Conservative government?

OP posts:
peedoffblue · 09/05/2015 14:16

Oh go on one more then..

So if your son died because he had been left starving and hungry and unable to control his diabetes, and someone asked you how he was, would you say he was "unhappy"?

You are really misunderstanding me, I never said I didn't agree that 'sanctions causes suffering and death' (using your words so you absolutely get it), you think I am trivialising death by using the word 'unhappy' but I was using it in debate as it is known as a utilitarian metric to describe socio-economic 'good and bad'.

ByeByeButterfly · 09/05/2015 14:25

This is what I've been saying on Facebook for the last 48 hours or so.
The amount of people being darnright nasty isn't real.
I've heard people being called vile, stupid, nazis, scum, idiots, twats and that's just one status!
I think it's great we have a right to vote in this country and to be able to express ourselves by voting for whoever we want.
I was always thought by my Mum there are 2 things you never ask someone; how much they earn and who they vote for and I really see why now.
I can understand emotions being high--we're in a rubbish position right now but all the name calling and hateful comments are just beyond the Paul.
Don't agree that's fine but do you have to personally insult someone?
Someone on my Facebook had a 'I'm so sorry' type message from someone because her boyfriend is a Toru supporter. When said friend said there is nothing wrong with that the boyfriend was called all sorts.
Can I also state that the Tories on my Facebook are NOT rich - 35k or less earnings a fair few students.
I am stuck as felt either way we would be done for but for different reasons.

Please though people we are all human beings with feelings less of the vitriol if you can.

rant over

wigglylines · 09/05/2015 14:25

ibitemythumbatyou yes that was a real example, a man called David Clapson. AFAIK an enquiry is going to be held after there was significant public outrage.

This is from the petition his sister started:

"My brother, David Clapson, a diabetic ex-soldier, died starving and destitute because he was penalised by the Job Centre for missing a meeting.

David had his £71.70 weekly allowance stopped meaning that he couldn’t afford food or electricity. He was penniless, starving and alone. His electricity card was out of credit meaning the fridge where he should have kept his diabetes insulin chilled was not working. Three weeks after his benefits were stopped he died from diabetic ­ketoacidosis – caused by not taking his insulin.

David wasn’t a “scrounger”. He had worked for 29 years; 5 years in the Army – including two years in Northern Ireland in the 1970s, during the height of the troubles – 16 years with British Telecom, eight years with various other companies, and in recent years was a carer for our sick mother. When mum went into a home, David turned to the state for help, receiving benefits while he looked for work and taking unpaid work placements.

When he died he had just £3.44 to his name, six tea bags, a tin of soup and an out-of-date can of sardines. A coroner also found he had no food in his stomach.

People turn to the state when they are in need - that is what the system is for - a safety net for hard working people like my brother when they need a bit of support. That £71.70 a week was his lifeline. To withhold it from him for missing one meeting is cruel. And the heartbreaking thing is that he was really trying. CVs for job applications were found near David’s body. He had been on work placements, passed his fork lift truck certificate and had been on a computer training course.

Like many others I believe that benefits sanctions (penalties by the government for things like missing Jobcentre meetings) are completely out of control and putting those most in need at risk. A million people have been sanctioned in the last year – many of them are extremely vulnerable like my brother was.

I want to know how the Department of Work and Pensions can justify welfare sanctions that are driving people to foodbanks and leading to starvation and death. The DWP were aware of my brother’s diabetes and insulin dependency, and, if as they say, they followed procedures and no errors were made, then why did my brother die?

Questions need to be asked of how Iain Duncan Smith is justifying benefit sanctions. What is the full impact of these sanctions? Are they working or simply putting the vulnerable further at risk?

I don’t want anybody else to die like this."

Petition link

To think you shouldn't insult someone just because they voted differently to you?
wigglylines · 09/05/2015 14:29

This man is Charley McGarvey's. His seriously ill brother Terry, 48, attended his Atos assessment and then had to be taken to hospital where he died the following day.

"Terry McGarvey knew he wasn’t well enough to attend the hearing. But he was terrified his benefits would be stopped if he didn’t turn up.

He dragged himself to the assessment but had to be taken to hospital in an ambulance. Terry, 48, died the next day.

His brother Charlie, 50, said: “He said he felt terrible and didn’t think he could leave the house.

“But he was worried they’d take his benefits away if he didn’t go.

“When he went in, he sat down with a young woman who started asking him questions.

“I pointed out that he needed an ambulance, not a medical.

“They put us into a room next door and lay him on a bed. We waited more than an hour for the ambulance without anyone coming in to even ask how he was.”

Terry, who had blood disorder polycytheamia, died in Glasgow’s Victoria Infirmary from pneumonia last month. His death certificate also lists liver disease.

Charlie, from Glasgow, said Atos’s trained medical assessors should have realised his brother, a former lorry driver, was dangerously ill.

...

Thousands of seriously ill and vulnerable people have been deemed fit to work by the tests, only for the verdicts to be overturned on appeal."

From this article.

To think you shouldn't insult someone just because they voted differently to you?
Selfishcuntydupe · 09/05/2015 14:30

Where was his family? He clearly has one. His sister wrote that letter. The state cannot, will not and never can be father and mother sister and brother.

It strikes me that yes, the sanctions were awful but where were his family, his friends??

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 09/05/2015 14:33

I have to laugh at selfish avidly fighting for the rights of those who are able bodied and well off. Go you

wigglylines · 09/05/2015 14:35

That's irrelevant. Many people have no family.

The state should not be responsible for pushing people into abject poverty like this.

I was going to post some more, but actually I'm going to walk away.

These are real people, with real families. Please, have some compassion.

Selfishcuntydupe · 09/05/2015 14:38

Do the able bodied and well off have no rights? How odd. I was under the impression that in Non MN World we did.

I know we are all invalid and without value here, though. Apart from, of course, as cash cows for the Welfare State.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 09/05/2015 14:38

Can I just address the Iraq War piece.

Tony Blair didn't invade on his own. Votes were held in parliament to support the fiercely debated legitimacy of the war. The Tories supported the government.

David Cameron voted for the Iraq War.

William Hague voted for the Iraq War.

So did Theresa May, George Osborne and many of the present Tory administration.

More Tory MPs voted for the war on Iraq than Labour MPs. Far more.

I, with marched against the Iraq in February 2003. I've got loads of pictures from that day. I saw banners from unions, labour and LD parties, antiwar organisations, community groups. I don't remember seeing one conservative group. And the main speakers at the rally were all Labour and LD politicians.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The only reason it WAS debated in parliament was thanks to efforts of back bench Labour MPs.

The war on Iraq is one of the worst crimes of the 21st century. And history WILL judge you on that Blair.

But he did it with the backing of the Tories.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 09/05/2015 14:39

I, with half a million other people,

Should say.

Selfishcuntydupe · 09/05/2015 14:40

wiggly - you contradict yourself. You say some have no family then admonish me and tell think of their families.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 09/05/2015 14:41

Well selfish.DH and I are able bodied and comfortably off. Therefore we have choices and options unlike the vulnerable who should be protected and are in more need of having their rights defended.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 09/05/2015 14:43

Wiggly I admire you trying but obviously some people are unable to feel compassion and only want to win an argument.

MitzyLeFrouf · 09/05/2015 14:46

I don't think the inconvenient truths are welcome here.

CactusAnnie · 09/05/2015 14:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wigglylines · 09/05/2015 15:03

Fanjo I realise that now.

I'm not engaging anymore.

wigglylines · 09/05/2015 15:05

I can't believe such a huge part of the electorate are similarly devoid of compassion though.

I honestly believe that if the general public actually understood what they were voting for they'd be horrified.

Perhaps I'm being naive? Sad

I sincerely hope not.

BakewellSlice · 09/05/2015 15:11

Well against the flow of the election Esther McVey lost her seat. I don't know the constituency but maybe there was a personal vote that went against her.

CactusAnnie · 09/05/2015 15:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SolomanDaisy · 09/05/2015 15:17

Jesus Christ, selfishcuntydupe's response to that awful story is so entirely lacking in compassion that I cannot believe it is real. Surely this is someone being planted by Labour to make Tory voters look like outrageous twats.

Selfishcuntydupe · 09/05/2015 15:24

Think what you like Soloman .

The state cannot replace family and friends.

CactusAnnie · 09/05/2015 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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