about SIL breastfeeding issue? Wedding related!

[SilverSalmon]

I'm getting married in 5 weeks and there'll be 6 children at the wedding - 2 small babies and 4 toddlers. Next to the room where we're getting married is another room they use for smaller ceremonies, I asked if they could leave the door open for this in case people need to take out crying/tantrumming children (including my own 4yo DS!). They've agreed and will put sofas and a toy box in the room.

We were at my OH's parents at the weekend and his DB and wife were there. They are bringing their 2 children, our niece (4 months) and nephew (3yo) to the wedding. I told her about the room and said that I can get them sat near it just in case they need to pop out and settle or feed them (she's breastfeeding both). She said that if they need to feed she can just pull her dress down as its low cut, but I said she'll probably be more comfortable in the room as the seats are squahsed close together and may incur a lot of faffing. I've said the same to my cousin who is bring her 2 month old, who is bottle fed (and told SIL-to-be this).

Can I state at this point I'm very pro-breastfeeding, i breastfed DS until he was 2 years old, often in public, and would never ever adopy a 'there's a time and a place' attitude - however having breastfed a child of varying ages I know what a faff it can be especially when they're across your lap when someone is right next to you, so I gave the room idea as I thought it would be more comfortable for them and the children.

This morning OH has received the following email from his DB (names changed obviously):

Hi DB
Laura (SIL-to-be) and I have been discussing the issue of breastfeeding at your wedding and the fact she's been asked to go into another room if she needs to feed during the ceremony. I have to say I'm disappointed in you both as I thought you were pro-breastfeeding. Laura feels very vicitimised by this and we suspect it's because other guests may feel uncomfortable. In which case that's their issue, if they are offended by breasts being used for their natural function then they are welcome to turn their heads. Or, if it's like SilverSalmon says, and it's just for our comfort, we believe it would be easier to just get the children latched on rather than make the fuss of getting up and leaving the room.

I think it may be a good time to also mention that, as you know, Laura tandem feeds and because DS is still feeding when she latches DD on he usually comes up asking for some too. Meaning that it's highly likely that she'll need to tandem feed at various points during the day. We're happy with this and she has chosen a tandem-feeding friendly dress for this reason. Laura is not prepared to be shoved into a side room like she's doing something sordid, she wants to be part of the day too. So wether it be during the ceremony, dinner, speeches etc, she will need to tandem feed and is not prepared to leave the room to do it. I have to put the comfort and needs of my wife and children first. If you're not happy with this arrangement I'm afraid we won't be able to come - I'm not having any of us penalised because of our feeding choices. None of us would enjoy a day where the children and Laura are constantly seperate from me and the feeding is non-negotiable. It's up to you 2 but can you let us know asap and then we do things like cancel the hotel room and return our outfits. I hope you understand our point of view, I don't want to fall out with you but I didn't think breastfeeding would be such an issue!"

So mumsnet AIBU to be upset about this? I genuinely thought I was being helpful when I offered a side room for the ceremony. Help!

I agree Merry.

An older generation grew up at a time when breast feeding in public just didn't happen. As a result older men, in particular, can feel quite uncomfortable if a young woman is breastfeeding in front of them. They can't help it, it's just something they are not used to.
That needs to be respected too. The world doesn't just revolve around BF women and if you know that there are people around of an age or culture where it isn't 'the norm' then surely just adapt a bit to their sensitivities.

I couldn't care less if someone breastfed triplets in front of me, but I am aware that for some of the older generation that isn't the case.

They haven't got breastfeeding issues! SIL sounds very happy with her breastfeeding. It's other people that have the issues.

"Anyone who has a problem with seeing breastfeeding needs to be ignored it is their problem"

I think this is true, how does it give 'breastfeeding a bad name'?

Not really, Fanjo. It is clear his parents don't like to consider others needs or feelings above their own. And he seems to be being treated in a similar fashion, so I'm sure he'll adopt a similar attitude.

I am still baffled at how this woman is "going to be topless". I have several fancy occasion type breastfeeding dresses and they have a sort of flap bit that lifts up, or some people can manage just pulling down the neckline a bit (my boobs sadly are too widely-spaced for that). YANBU, OP, for providing a room for baby-related stuff, and I do think their reply was a bit snotty, but you've admitted yourself that you do actually want her to go in there rather than feed during the ceremony in front of people and I can see why she's miffed about it.

Also kind of depressed at how many people still think breastfeeding a toddler is something it's somehow rude to do in front of people/"forcing your (freakish) breastfeeding issues on people"/"only appropriate at a breastfeeding convention with the other exhibitionist boob crazies, what?"/"all about the mother's issues"/a recipe for a spoilt brat/a bit Little Britain/involves taking all your clothes off. I probably wouldn't BF my own 2.5 year old toddler during a wedding, or at least he'd be reasonably easily fobbed off, but I've fed him in public (eg last Friday in a Pizza Express). Nobody batted an eyelid. Also it meant he was quiet and I could look at the menu.

Your future il sound like nutjobs. They're just wanting to be exhibitionists about this issue and cause a problem. There is a time and a place.

Ah, I see that the rather patronizing straw (old) man has come out - "I'm ok with BF in public, but OLD PEOPLE will probably be scandalized, can somebody not think of the poor OLD PEOPLE, it's selfish to feed in front of OLD PEOPLE, they won't understand it, they'll be scared and upset by the breasts, feeding where OLD PEOPLE might see you is really selfish and disrespectful, etc.".

The only time I ever had a comment from an OLD PERSON was when a rather posh old lady came over when I was feeding DS1 and told me "jolly well done"...

she said she will simply pull her dress down. Considering she's planning to feed 2 kids at the same time, that leaves you pretty much topless indeed.

YY leedy

I don't know this 3 year old, so I don't know how he might react if told he can't have milk even though his baby sibling is. At that age, my DD may have been happy to be fobbed off, but if she was likely to even get slightly irritated by it, or throw a tantrum, I would rather have fed her than risk disturbing other people.

I have never seen a woman remove her top layers of clothing to breastfeed, whether she was feeding one or two children. Even when it's really hot. Are people wandering on to nudist beaches when they see women 'naked from the waist down' who are feeding their children?

Everyone who's saying 'why should she hide, it's other people's issue not hers' - usually I would agree. However, a wedding is one of those occasions where its just not about you. No one is actually stopping sil from breastfeeding, and it would be a great world if you could whip both tits out and feed away. However, that's not the real world. Some people might be offended, and as the host of the wedding, the OP has to consider everyone. In all honesty (I would never say anything of course), but I personally find a child being bf over the age of 2-3 quite odd. Just me of course, never would take it away from a woman to do so, but I might unintentionally pull a face. I'm sure your in-laws would have a great time giving me a lecture for it .

This is not the day for the in-laws to shout about their love of bf, wherever, whenever. Its not like the OP is making her wear a tablecloth around herself with the words 'UNCLEAN' stamped to her forehead. As other said, it may be far more comfortable to feed in the other room, particularly with two. Ultimately, this isn't about bf and hiding away, this is about two people who think the world revolves around them, and their choices. They made an issue of nothing, they need to apologise and they need to learn that their views aren't more important than anyone else's.

Another vote for the Penguins email. It conveys the situation and also mildly rebukes him for taking that tone. You do want to make it clear that this is about space, not anything else. Now I don't give a shit if someone tandem feeds their 7 year olds in the middle of the Trafalgar Square fountain, I think if we all focused more on the kids who aren't getting fed instead of the ones who are, the world would be a much better place. But the amount of space that a tandem feeding infant and 3 year old would take up, I can't see how that could be done in closely packed seats without being all over the person next to you. I don't care about tits, I would care about kicks. But if she can pull it off without anyone else being sprawled on, fair play to her.

Stopandlook unless OP is in Scotland, it wouldn't be unlawful for her to try and stop SIL from feeding- provided she doesn't break any other laws in doing so of course. It would be unlawful for the venue to do so, but OP can tell her to use the side room if she wants, and not be breaking any laws. SIL is equally free to ignore.

Pourquoi the evidence for that 4.2 years claim is, to say the least, rather patchy.

breastfeedingwithoutbs.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/bullshitometer-no-average-age-of.html

thelactivist.blogspot.co.uk/2008/01/myth-busting-average-age-of-weaning-45.html

Well leedy I have been in situations where I've seen older men, including my father, be very embarrassed at someone breastfeeding in front of them.
Also, not sure why you have to shout. Just because your experience is different from other posters doesn't negate those posters' experience and views.

Skeeter3 I breastfed my son until he was 2, I think it's excellent she's tandem feeding and I take my hat off to her and if my wedding was full of like minded people then I wouldn't be saying "I rather she didn't tandem feed". However I can't be arsed on the day with my mother prattling on at me because aunty so-and-so has this opinion or people gasping or gawping at her. Sadly some people are intolerant of natural term feeding, as much as I hate it, it's a fact. And some of these people will be at my wedding, and as ignorant as their views are I think on the day I have to consider everyone. Yes she has a right to feed but people also have a right to be shocked about it.

regardless I'm not gonna say to her "I rather you didn't tandem feed" as 1) I'm not a dick and 2) it would create too much drama. But I am hoping it doesn't happen too often and that she doesn't do it in the ceremony. I also don't like to idea of my cousin arsing about with a bottle for her 2 month old so contrary to your witch hunt of me it's not a breast issue.

PS many of the responses on this thread have very much cheered me up, thanks ladies

"However, a wedding is one of those occasions where its just not about you"

the simple act of breastfeeding is not an act that is 'all about you' - people don't do it to make a point or to make people look.

Anyway - the OP has already stressed she doesn't have any issues with breastfeeding or her guest doing so in the ceremony or at the meal.

Moving her to a back table says otherwise but that is what she's stated.

YANBU. I am pro breastfeeding and breastfed my own children- but I really hate the way some people manage to find offence anywhere and everywhere when it comes to breastfeeding. Like a pp said, there was no need for such a long rambling email. Perhaps it could have been made more clear to them the room was for all children but overall yanbu

"If the 3 yo feeds too then that is both tits right out wherever she is sitting."

Yes, except they'll have children's heads in front of them so almost certainly nobody will see a thing unless they both unlatch at once. I presume (never tandem fed) she'd also quickly pull down one side of frock, latch on one, then pull down other side, then latch on the other, not just pull her top down and wave 'em about before doing anything. Most BF women don't actually want to be naked in public for any longer than is absolutely necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit puzzled by the "absolutely needing to tandem feed during the ceremony" thing and she sounds like a bit of a drama queen, but tandem feeding in public/toddler feeding in general shouldn't be treated as some kind of to-be-hidden freakishness (THINK OF THE OLD PEOPLE!!!!).

An older generation grew up at a time when breast feeding in public just didn't happen. As a result older men, in particular, can feel quite uncomfortable if a young woman is breastfeeding in front of them. They can't help it, it's just something they are not used to.

They also grew up at a time when gay relationships were not something that people saw in public, but I wouldn't have bloody dreamed of asking gay couples invited to my own wedding to refrain from acting coupley where people could see in order to protect the feelings of great-aunt so-and-so.

"Not really, Fanjo. It is clear his parents don't like to consider others needs or feelings above their own. And he seems to be being treated in a similar fashion, so I'm sure he'll adopt a similar attitude."

no

because it what qualified with 'Breastfeeding on demand at 3!'

The implication being that this is the damaging thing which will turn the child into some kind of monster. Shame on anyone who looks at a 3 year old and determines what kind of adult they will be based upon the way their mother chooses to feed. How utterly ridiculous.

"Well leedy I have been in situations where I've seen older men, including my father, be very embarrassed at someone breastfeeding in front of them."

And I'm afraid my reaction is "I don't care". I don't think the onus is on breastfeeding mothers to cover up/not feed in public to avoid embarrassing old men, or that it's somehow "rude" or "selfish" not to do so. If more women just did it in public (as in countries where BF rates are higher), it would just seem what it is: boringly normal.

And yes, what Pterodactyl said!

I still don't understand what it is about breastfeeding that makes people so uncomfortable?

Or is it simply that some people cannot comprehend that breasts have a more important purpose and aren't just for sex and general amusement of men?

TBF, I see 3 year olds I know and think "there's no way I could have fed DD when she was like that" and then remember that I did. Until she was 4. So even though I did it, I still understand that it can seem a bit 'odd' because it's not something you see often. But I realise that it's my issue, due to the way society views women and their breasts.

OP, if on the day your mother does start saying something, tell her to go and take it up with your SIL! I'm kidding, but I remember well how my own mum was when it was my wedding so you do have my sympathies there

Only 1% of mothers continue for the recommended six months, so whilst it’s perfectly acceptable to still be BF at 3YO no-one can say that it’s not unusual. People, especially those a bit older or who have had less exposure to the Breast is Best literature, will stare. They may well nudge their neighbour and say, “Is she doing what I think she’s doing? During the vows?”. Even those with the best of intentions might think, “wtfffffff”, and remember your wedding as the one where someone BF a toddler along with her baby.

The child isn’t relying on BF as their main source of nutrition, it’s likely mainly for comfort. Which is fine, but it means that the toddler’s need to BF isn’t critical. But whatever you feel strongly about, it’s not really on to use someone’s wedding ceremony as a stage to promote your opinions. Coffee shop, fine. Dentists waiting room, fine. Wedding reception, fine. But in the ceremony? No. I’m all for removing the stigma attached to EB, but this looks militant, entitled and is more likely to alienate people than garner supporters.

get your dp to email back that the room was offered to all parents with children, whether feeding or not.

that breast feeding in the ceremony/reception may not be possible as there is limited room and you were providing a comfortable option.

that he feels hurt that they have interpreted a kind gesture as an attack on them.. perhaps it would be best that they did not come, but at as I am feeling pissed off with people who take advantage this may not be the best advice, but I sure as hell would feel that seeing they have sucjh a low opinion of me

They are being ridiculous.

They are being chippy and deliberately difficult. The lady can feed her baby and the toddler discreetly wherever she likes, but the pair of them are being stroppy for the sake of it.

Can I just point out to all those seconding 'Penguin's email' that there are two different posters with 'Penguin' in their names, both of whom suggested emails, but they were very different. It might be a good idea to make it clear which one you mean.
Personally I prefer this one:-

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom Tue 05-May-15 13:26:52

to this one:-
PenguindreamsofDraco Tue 05-May-15 13:23:50