about SIL breastfeeding issue? Wedding related!

[SilverSalmon]

I'm getting married in 5 weeks and there'll be 6 children at the wedding - 2 small babies and 4 toddlers. Next to the room where we're getting married is another room they use for smaller ceremonies, I asked if they could leave the door open for this in case people need to take out crying/tantrumming children (including my own 4yo DS!). They've agreed and will put sofas and a toy box in the room.

We were at my OH's parents at the weekend and his DB and wife were there. They are bringing their 2 children, our niece (4 months) and nephew (3yo) to the wedding. I told her about the room and said that I can get them sat near it just in case they need to pop out and settle or feed them (she's breastfeeding both). She said that if they need to feed she can just pull her dress down as its low cut, but I said she'll probably be more comfortable in the room as the seats are squahsed close together and may incur a lot of faffing. I've said the same to my cousin who is bring her 2 month old, who is bottle fed (and told SIL-to-be this).

Can I state at this point I'm very pro-breastfeeding, i breastfed DS until he was 2 years old, often in public, and would never ever adopy a 'there's a time and a place' attitude - however having breastfed a child of varying ages I know what a faff it can be especially when they're across your lap when someone is right next to you, so I gave the room idea as I thought it would be more comfortable for them and the children.

This morning OH has received the following email from his DB (names changed obviously):

Hi DB
Laura (SIL-to-be) and I have been discussing the issue of breastfeeding at your wedding and the fact she's been asked to go into another room if she needs to feed during the ceremony. I have to say I'm disappointed in you both as I thought you were pro-breastfeeding. Laura feels very vicitimised by this and we suspect it's because other guests may feel uncomfortable. In which case that's their issue, if they are offended by breasts being used for their natural function then they are welcome to turn their heads. Or, if it's like SilverSalmon says, and it's just for our comfort, we believe it would be easier to just get the children latched on rather than make the fuss of getting up and leaving the room.

I think it may be a good time to also mention that, as you know, Laura tandem feeds and because DS is still feeding when she latches DD on he usually comes up asking for some too. Meaning that it's highly likely that she'll need to tandem feed at various points during the day. We're happy with this and she has chosen a tandem-feeding friendly dress for this reason. Laura is not prepared to be shoved into a side room like she's doing something sordid, she wants to be part of the day too. So wether it be during the ceremony, dinner, speeches etc, she will need to tandem feed and is not prepared to leave the room to do it. I have to put the comfort and needs of my wife and children first. If you're not happy with this arrangement I'm afraid we won't be able to come - I'm not having any of us penalised because of our feeding choices. None of us would enjoy a day where the children and Laura are constantly seperate from me and the feeding is non-negotiable. It's up to you 2 but can you let us know asap and then we do things like cancel the hotel room and return our outfits. I hope you understand our point of view, I don't want to fall out with you but I didn't think breastfeeding would be such an issue!"

So mumsnet AIBU to be upset about this? I genuinely thought I was being helpful when I offered a side room for the ceremony. Help!

grovel well put. Exactly so.

Agree also ginger and sand

I hope they don't turn up op after this as they will surely be wanting to make a point. I would uninvited them but I am a cow.

Yes your 100% right culture

in my area/family/social circle, it's seen as polite to leave and crack on in privacy at an event or ceremony, and feed in a comfortable peaceful environment then return to the event with a hopefully content baby, and minimise disruption. If a family member had told me they had arranged a room I'd take it as a kind hint to "just for this once for me" and I'd accept it knowing it wasn't my day or anything to do with my needs or wants. But yes were clearly different in our opinions.

Pt of course bf can be discreet. Mine was.

However the email to the op was rude and basically stated they wouldn't be going anywhere however noisy the kids were. That's rude. The sil will tandem feed whatever and wherever.

That's rude and bad mannered.

It's the ops wedding and as such the sil/bil should respect other guests, keep their kids quiet during the speeches and the vows and go with the flow.

I'm curious if the OP expects the woman that bottle feeds her two month old to use the other room too (to feed). I bottle fed and I'd never excuse myself from a ceremony to bottle feed.

What's with this assumption that "spinster aunts" will be horrified by breastfeeding?

And grovel, people have said clearly many times on this thread that they would take an unsettled baby out so as not to disrupt the wedding. I did exactly that with my 2 yr old when he was getting too noisy at the family wedding we went to. The point is that the SIL tandem feeding isn't by definition going to be noisy and disruptive - in fact, the DB/SIL are saying it's the least disruptive option.

The problem here is that the OP and the SIL have both taken offence when none was intended. I would imagine it would be problematic in terms of family relations to dis-invite them, so the only remaining option is to clear up any misunderstandings and to try to de-escalate the situation.

If the wedding couple want a completely controllable wedding ceremony then simply don't invite children. This seems quite a common option.

I actually wonder if SIL is feeling a bit over sensitive due to exhaustion. I have breastfed my 4 DC for a long time, my second was nearly 3 when she stopped but demand feeding a 3 year old and a baby must be tiring. Caring for a tiny baby and a toddler is hard enough but offset, for me, by the chance to have a snuggly peaceful feed with the baby, or at least when DH was home. Having a toddler clamber on me as well would have been irritating. But then the older they get the more I start to think "Ok, time to GET OFF me now".

Well, (and I await flaming) if I was a guest at a wedding I would not want to spend the meal next to someone tandem feeding a 3 year old and a baby at the same time.

Why? Would you object to being next to a baby being bottle fed?

I've left to bottle feed. it's just more comfortable to feed back in the hotel room, or in a lounge in a comfy chair than on a dining chair I find. Also DS likes to chat and babble halfway through his feed, but that's just me.

I think OP was just trying to be kind and offer a peaceful comfortable environment for mums to feed knowing there were babies coming, it was a kind jesture thrown back in her face rather than just politely accepted and either used or not used.

Really? What if the baby is a noisy bottle feeder like my older ones were post breast. How bloody rude not to remove them somewhere quiet during a wedding.

This had nothing to go with breast feeding as any normal person would remove themselves and a baby making a noise for any reason bottle breast or tantrum during such times.

This is about daft people making it all about them.

If your kid is making a noise take it out of the ceremony/assembly/room. End of. All happy.

However the email to the op was rude and basically stated they wouldn't be going anywhere however noisy the kids were.

To be fair, it said "we believe it would be easier to just get the children latched on rather than make the fuss of getting up and leaving the room". You could fairly read that as them thinking that feeding in the seat would be less noisy than getting up to feed elsewhere.

I am not disagreeing that the email was OTT and overdramatic and rather bizarre, and I'm glad I'm not related to them myself, but I don't think it's fair to go from that to "...and therefore, they will inevitably ruin the ceremony for everyone."

I should add that's it's not the tandem feeding as such that would necessarily do me in, it would be the 3 year old wanting multiple feeds a day.

I'd just take raisins, water, etc to placate a toddler at a wedding. Can't he survive half an hour without needing to be fed?

You seem determined make it clear, Ginger, that you consider me (or people who hold the same opinions as me) to be self-centred and unable to consider anyone else's needs and wants.

I can't imagine that my friends/family would expect me to go to a side room to feed a baby, if I were to be attending a wedding or other celebration with them. Different people have different views on this, it doesn't make you amazingly considerate and me to be utterly selfish. It's just different. No one I know would find a mother breastfeeding a baby to be disruptive or inconsiderate. That's the world that I'm used to, so I would be likely to turn down the offer of a side room as I wouldn't think that I would be doing anything that would offend or upset anyone else and so wouldn't see the need.

The SIL here clearly has the hump about the side room being raised, and seems likely to kick up a fuss as a result. It also seems likely that she is the sort of person who would find something to take offense at, if not the sideroom issue then something else.

Has she sent the fucking email yet?

Yes culture the beauty of different opinions. I'm not saying bf is disruptive , all I'm saying if there is a slim chance during an important ceremony that it could become a bit of a nuicance/noisy and the bride has gone to the effort of making a comfortable suitable room available then it would be polite to just say thanks, or say no I'm sure we will manage. Not to make some massive e-mail family drama out of it.

me and everyone I know have always excused themselves during solemn or important ceremonies to feed/deal with children as a sign of politness. So I deem it as polite to leave. There is also a massive difference between the ease of feeding one fussing young child and hoping they will immediately quiet (very plausible) than feeding two fussing children in tandem (not very plausable at all) aslo the attitude displayed by the SIL is clear, she couldn't give a fuck if it causes a fuss, she's doing what she wants, and that in my opinion is rude.

Then, apart from one specific point, we are saying the same thing. Plus I agree with you that the SIL is likely to be prone to making a fuss on purpose now.

I've never come across the idea of always leaving to feed a baby as a point of politeness before. To me and people I know, there is nothing impolite about feeding. Obviously allowing a baby or child to make a huge fuss/noise to the point of disrupting the wedding is impolite and I wouldn't allow this to happen with my own children, whether I was attempting to feed them or not.

My babies were obviously much greedier than yours ginger. Slapping, fussing, slurping etc????? Not in my world! Boob comes out, baby latches on, baby stays latched on until either asleep or forcibly removed.

No disruption whatsoever.

Although if the bride had seemed keen for me to feed in the side room I'd have been quite happy to dump the 3 y.o. on d.h. and escape do whatever makes the bride happy.

Don't get me wrong at a birthday party or family bbq nobody leaves, the leaving is reserved for funerals/weddings and in my case award ceremonies or remeberance occasions also, because there is nothing worse than something you hoped would go smoothly going wrong then the fuss that follow and the inevitable attention it draws as you fumble around having already started something and now have to stop. It's just seen as easier to pop out, do the job and return for those occasions. It's always been the same regardless of feeding method in my area.

But yes we can agree on SIL isn't going to go quietly in to the night, regarding this hot topic..

mum DS is a noisy, wiggly, nosey bugger and will often stop feeding if something catches his eye, he's always been like it, then gets upset that he's suddenly not feeding...well umm that's your own fault DS for being distracted by everything and anything .

Nothing gets between my ds and his milk.

I leave with my hungry babies (bottle fed) at weddings/funerals/christening as like ginger it is seen as polite where I am (or maybe just my social circle?) parties and bbq etc, even the reception after the Wedding once. all speeches are done are fair game feed all you like.
I don't understand why the three year old can't be taken out if they want a snack or comforting or whatever. does that mean my 6 yo can pester for a snack or want to sit on my knee and cuddle?

fwiw the last wedding I attended was when my DD was 6 months and didn't need to leave as she was quiet and happy. DS was also very well behaved and had he complained or pestered then he would have been taken out of the ceremony and dealt with, just as DD would have been had she been hungry/ nappy needed changing or just being a fusspot

People want to normalise the on-demand BFing of three and four year olds? That's ridiculous and, tbh, a bit anti-feminist. There's so much stuff you can't do while you're BFing, such as having a night out - or a weekend break, or a career that demands long periods of both concentration and the use of all four of your limbs. Yeah, maybe you can strap a small baby on with one of those hippy rags and it can suck away when necessary, but not many people could cope with a toddler tied to them all day.
And BFing is not a wonderful smooth effortless natural miracle that you manage by moral superiority and possession of tits and a womb. For some women it's not possible at all, for others it's a prolonged nightmare of mastitis, chewed nipples, painful engorgment when the baby's had a longer-than-usual sleep, etc. BF, if it works for the mother, is slightly better than formula unless access to clean water is a problem, and has the advantages of being cheaper and if it works less faff than sterilizing bottles and running out of powdered milk in the middle of the night, but by the time the kid's grown up (or started school for that matter) the difference it will have made whether it was bottle fed or breast fed is negligible.

Silver, when my babies were small I would have fallen on your neck weeping hot tears of gratitude if I found out there was going to be a whole comfy room for me to entertain my DCs in away from the madding crowd. I may have been tempted to camp there the whole time and just demand that DH brought me food and drinks regularly.

DS often got distracted mid feed. He would turn his head to look at the interesting noises, nipple clamped firmly in his mouth and being stretched like a bit of old elastic. I was a massively discreet feeder, unfortunately DS didn't hold with discreet if it got in the way of him having a good nosey.

However, I realise everyone if different and Laura obviously has very different needs from mine. What I don't understand is why, if she didn't like your suggestion of using a room, she and BIL felt the need to confront you and offer ultimatums. Why not just wait til the wedding, feed when and where she wants and just deal with the fall out (if any) on the day? Why try and start a battle over something that was clearly a misunderstanding?

Pro breastfeeding here, fed my babies until they were two years BUT find your SILs response utterly bizarre! Very strange, YANBU but I would probably just grit my teeth and humour her. Sounds like she's got issues to be honest

SGB, that's not at all what I said.

I said that I wished that breastfeeding was just a normal run of the mill thing that didn't need discussion. Whether or not a mother allows her 3 or 4 yr old to demand feed is up to her and it doesn't affect me one way or the other. I can't see why anyone else would care.

You are also being ridiculous if you think you can't do all those things you listed whilst still breastfeeding. You seem to think that feeding an older baby/toddler
requires you to do it 24hrs a day non stop which isn't the case. An established supply can easily cope with a weekend away, as can the toddler. Older toddlers may only feed in the morning and evening. Somehow, I managed an intense job that required plenty of concentration whilst still feeding my 1yr old!

As for anti-feminist... well, I disagree with that too. I don't think that breastfeeding being completely run of the mill and unremarkable is anti-feminist? How so?

And the rest of your post about breastfeeding - I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. No one has claimed breastfeeding to be easy, morally superior or effortless. Don't know where you've got that from.