about HV reporting me to GP

[spectral]

I took DD to her 2-year development check last week. It was at 1pm, which I wasn't thrilled about as dd is normally asleep then and that's important work time for me, but I didn't have much faith in the possibility of rescheduling again, as we'd initially had a letter making an appointment for a date already in the past. I turned up on time with a completed copy of the development questionnaire and a very sleepy DD.

HV went through the questionnaire asking each question again, word-for-word. About five minutes in she said I seemed 'stressed' and asked why; I told her that DD really needed a sleep, that I really needed the time to work, and that I wasn't sure why I had bothered to fill out the questionnaire in advance if we were going to go through it again word-for-word. Appointment went a bit faster after that; I said that I would ask for help if I thought dd needed it, but that we had no concerns whatsoever about her development. HV agreed no concerns. DD didn't want to cooperate with being weighed and measured, but HV said she looked pretty 'in proportion' so it didn't really matter, and appointment ended by mutual agreement.

Six days later I get a phone call from DD's GP saying he's had an email from HV about me and is 'calling out of a duty of care to a child' -- so clearly not a friendly call just to check everything's ok. I told him about the conversation I had at HV appointment, explained again why I might have seemed stressed, but that that HV had not indicated to me that she might have grounds for passing anything on. I pressed him to say whether there was anything out of the ordinary going on, and he said no, and I decided to be honest with him and say that I was very unhappy (ok, I actually said furious) that HV had decided to report me to my daughter's GP.

I am utterly freaked out, though. I adore DD and do my best for her, as does DH, and I think we are doing ok. I did express a negative opinion about the way the appointment was organised, but I think that should be allowed! What on earth is going on?

Also lets not forget that when there have been inquiries the main issue is often that professionals have not passed information between them. Concerns have been noted but not passed on or checked out. So to some extent this will be a back covering exercise but they have to do it. Could have been handled better however.

Actually now I've typed that and reread it it smacks of blatant sexism - that DH's work is more important than mine and he shouldn't have had to take time off. Wish I'd realised at the time and complained!

We have a 10 and 27 month check in our area. I was unable to make dc4 27 month ck. it was one slot a week for three hrs that involves me dropping off on school run and picking up a nursery run. I also have reoccurring appointments for DCs long- standing health conditions. It was never going to work with only a 3 hr slot. I rand hv and they were understanding enough. A bit miffed that I couldn't reschedule, but there weren't many options. She's dc 4, so I'm pretty confident. Officially though I've been recorded as 'refusing' to attend. Such a shame they use such confrontational language.

' Then she suggested I took a day's annual leave. I explained I can't do that as I'm a teacher but that I could go in half term. She couldn't do that as she was going away.'

I had that, and I said I'd be delighted to attend, I'd bring the 30 member of my class with me and it could be a day trip to see how the health service worked. I'd bring their mums too.
She chose to reschedule.

The HV was doing her job, you triggered a couple of flags for her and she passed her concern along.
Yes, there have been times when the system has got it wrong and parents have been furious about it. But other times they've got it wrong and the consequences have been much worse, involving fatalities, suicide and a much nastier set of consequences.

'FarelyKnuts, I was really upset to have the GP call out of the blue talking about his 'duty of care to a child', when the HV had seemingly agreed that DD was doing fine. Can you not see that that is upsetting?'

I've rarely had contact with a family about concerns involving their children that hasn't been upsetting in one way or another, and defensiveness is a barrier to communication. Sometimes because they know the concern is valid, sometimes because they are furious that they are being questioned about their behaviour, attitudes and possible needs.

The HV will encounter busy parents of tired children every day. You obviously acted in a way that was out of the ordinary, and it was noted and followed up. YABU.

Charis - 2 to 3 yr development checks are still routine where I live, so being invited to one would be perfectly normal.

I agree that you may have come across as being more stressed than you actually were, and presumably far more stressed than the HV considers normal, given that she went as far as talking to the GP.

I also think that HVs may be inclined to play it safe and be a bit over cautious when it comes to reporting things, as a pp says, they don't want to be blamed for not passing concerns on if things do go badly wrong.

Two to two and a half year checks are across the board in England (unsure about the whole of the UK), they are a core component of the healthy child programme.
Honestly there's some hysterical demonisation on here. HVs aren't social workers, they don't want to be social workers, despite the boundaries of the role being blurred more and more due to staffing. The caseloads are massive and you'd be surprised at the naice middle class families that come under safeguarding, if a family is flagged up its huge and generates masses of work. It's not done out of bloody boredom and malice. Ultimately HV are there as family nurses to ensure appropriate development, early intervention if there are any health needs, support for parents and promoting school readiness.
And they need to go over the questionnaire, most parents expect that, they generally enjoy discussing what they child can do and/or the oppurtunity to discuss concerns.

*terrible grammar and spelling, tiny screen.

It does seem odd and illogical to accept an appointment you don't want at a time that is inconvenient and then be angry that you are there.

Two to two and a half year checks are across the board in England

Well, it might have changed since mine were little, I have DC 16,14 and 12, none had a 2 or 3 year check.

We had one health visitor visit when I got home from hospital with DS1, then I took all of them to be weighed occasionally, that was it.

I did expect a 2 year check, as my brothers had them decades earlier, but all we had was a letter saying please sign this form and return in the prepaid envelope to agree that your child is developing normally, which I didn't as someone had forgotten to enclose the form or the envelope.

I'm always surprised to read threads about health visitors, because I'm not sure if they even exist in London. Bf recently had a baby, she goes to a weighing clinic, but no health visitor conversations, or visits.

For people asking why I didn't try to reschedule, the thing with the first appointment letter had made me feel like it was going to be more trouble than it was worth. At least the second appointment was for a day that I am home with DD rather than actually at work. Occasionally it is possible for DD to be rested and up again by 1; on that day it just didn't happen, so we got to 1pm with a very tired toddler and my work window slipping away (if I let her have a long nap later in the afternoon, we have trouble getting her to bed).

I'm certainly not accusing HV of being a 'Hitler'. But I do think she is part of a paternalistic system where the state plans interventions for certain categories of person at the population level, and at the local level individuals come under a huge amount of pressure to accept, even if they don't feel they need or want the intervention being offered. I think it undermines the principle of consent that our healthcare system is supposed to be based on. It makes me very uncomfortable.

The problem is pre school children can easily slip through the net. The abusive parent wouldn't want intervention, the mum who is really struggling may not want intervention for fear of what will happen, a family may not realise that their child isn't developing 'normally' and may need extra support. By having the HV system hopefully those issues can be discovered and correct support provided and the family able to access services to help.

You seem to be seeing them as someone to work against rather than work with.

OK
But next time you hear a report on the news of a mother with PND who killed her child, or herself, or a child that was so neglected by its parent that it ended up in hospital, are you going to be grateful that there was no intervention?
Say "What a good job they thought about not making the mother upset or uncomfortable and interfere'?
Because the triggers and symptoms aren't easy to spot, and they happen at all levels in our society and to all sorts of different people.

Oh, and on a lighter note, years back the HV turned up at our house with leaflets about adult education for OH. We lived in a rough area in the NW, he was a SAHD and she was concerned about his job prospects.
Did he get furious at her assumption that he was uneducated and that he ought to get some training?
No. There were dozens of our neighbours for whom that would have been a helpful intervention.
He pointed out that he had an Oxbridge degree and a PhD and that he felt it was enough for the moment. Then he asked her about local swimming classes for babies.

Why did you bother going? The developmental checks arent mandatory are they?

My dd hasn't seen a ha since she was tiny.

No mention or invite to a '2yr check'.

The health visitor sounds strange. Surely she had better things to do. We never had anything much to do with health visitors other than a cursory visit when DCs were maybe 6 weeks old (by which time I was back at work and DH was coping perfectly well). We didn't go to clinics, get DCs weighed or get red books filled in and nobody ever raised any red flags.

I am still unclear, and possibly OP is too, about the nature of the concern expressed.by the HV to the GP. I would write a letter to the GP asking for a copy of what was passed to him by HV. If you seemed stressed, surely they would be expressing concern for you and trying to offer you support? Exactly what was the concern the HV had about dd's wellbeing?

It hunk your last post was clear and well reasoned. I am of the same opinion :)

I do dislike the 'forced choice' assumption that you must submit to behaviours that are not positive and can feel really upsetting, or somehow by your objection you are willing to risk another child being harmed. It's really not a polarized choice.

One could argue that by clogging up the system and adding to enormous case loads unnecessarily, it's not helping at risk children at all.

I feel that health visitors have a very awkward remit, and have become more involved in the processes and procedures of child protection, so the detriment of their original purpose. It's a shame.

I used the two year check as the all clear to age out of the HV system, and am happier for it as the appointments weren't useful to me. Lots of box ticking and then either wrong advice or refusal to help on things we needed help on.

I am in fact still waiting for the hearing test they referred Ds for at his 2 year check - he's now 5!

But you WERE stressed an agitated at the appointment. You were stressed about work deadlines to the point that you were rude and dismissive about a pretty important, albeit routine, development check. maybe the hv was concerned that you aren't coping.Which at that moment you weren't. Could you consider reducing your workload?

I'd be unimpressed by the GP call myself, not just the HV.

It sounds like he didn't approach it in the right way at all, and just succeeded in freaking you out! And if there was an issue the GP completely missed the opportunity to find out and made you scared of engaging with services.