Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be depressed that women atre STILL appeasing men for a quiet life?

223 replies

Hakluyt · 30/04/2015 09:24

When I was a young woman a million years it was considered quite normal for women to put their wishes, even in quite trivial things, second to their husbands' and then third once children arrived. Men were often expected to get the best chair, the best bits of food- the household tended to revolve around their needs.

And it sometimes seems to me that not much has changed. The number of threads on here where people talk about doing things "for a quiet life", giving in because "it's not worth the hassle- I can't be doing with the sighing and huffing". Even women putting up with crap and then getting secret revenge instead of talking about things like grown ups!

I just find it so depressing that little seems to have changed. Why are we still doing this?

OP posts:
JoanHickson · 30/04/2015 09:28

Do you mean passive aggressive behaviour? If so they will be like that with everyone and need to grow up.

Men and society do think the Man should come first. I did this in the past due to a lack of self esteem and poor modelling.

I don't put anyone above anyone any more we are all equal. Though a child's needs need to come first a times.

Bodyinpyjamas10 · 30/04/2015 09:28

I think you have a point if the woman is unhappy or frustrated. However lots of women and men happily put their own needs last after family.

The phrase for a quiet life is a sad one though I agree.

I suppose it's all about whether the woman is quite happy to do this or secrety seething and resentful. If that's the case it's not good.

Morelikeguidelines · 30/04/2015 09:35

Yanbu.

LadyBlaBlah · 30/04/2015 09:38

yanbu

I see it every day with pretty much all of my female friends - my bff is especially bad. It is depressing beyond belief.

I'm no doubt seen as 'high maintenance' because I can't be arsed with man pleasing.

ImNameyChangey · 30/04/2015 09:42

I have no idea. I see it ALL the time. My friend is a successful businesswoman and yet still she cowtows to her husband on all sorts of things.

She's amazing...but she turns into a simpering fool when he disagrees with something she wants to do. Anything from what tv show to watch to whether they should move house...he "put his foot down" is something she often says and I get so MAD!

ImNameyChangey · 30/04/2015 09:43

body if a woman is happy to go along with something then it's not "for a quiet life" as she agrees anyway.

TrollshaveLittleWillies · 30/04/2015 09:45

YANBU but I think it works both ways and lots of men put up with things women do for a 'quiet life' . It's just that we don't hear about it on mumsnet because it's generally for women. Both my brothers are firmly in that camp.

It's sad either way around. I think it's changed from my mums generation to my generation and things are better. It's still shocking that it happens at all though. I find it especially sad when you read threads by young woman in their early 20's who have already adopted the role of the downtrodden woman. They have such low expectations.

EvilTendency1 · 30/04/2015 09:46

How many men do it as well though ? I know my husband does at times when I feel strongly about something.

I think both sexes do it.

suzannecanthecan · 30/04/2015 09:47

But is it as bad as it ever was or are more women questioning the assumption that they should naturally act in ways that appease men.
I see on here more and more threads where women are refusing to tolerate men who don't pull their weight ?

NickiFury · 30/04/2015 09:50

This is what my ex expected. It was always how it was for his Dad. I remember one occasion when we ordered a take away and he became furious because I took an equal half of it. Should have been more for him apparently as he was The Man, that was one of my first posts on MN actually. Also:-

Men needed meat every day.
Men should have a chair that was just theirs.
It was fine to physically nudge me or barge me to get me moving if we were out together and he wanted to move on.
I should bake a cake whenever visitors were coming, fruit preferably.
Men go out to work so do nothing round the house at all, nothing.

Loads more.

BumgrapesofWrath · 30/04/2015 09:51

YANBU.

I'd say a significant number of my female friends are like this. I think some of them really do struggle with confrontation and standing their ground. I also know some women who seem to revel in being the martyr, which I really don't understand!

suzannecanthecan · 30/04/2015 10:07

does it all come down to lack of economic power?
or what?

DoraGora · 30/04/2015 10:08

Dale Carnegie's HTWFaIP is all about not making a fuss. If you like arguing your corner at every given opportunity, then fine, do it. Some people think it's wiser to pick your battles. I know some people, men and women, who argue about the slightest thing. I don't like them very much, regardless of their sex.

Theoretician · 30/04/2015 10:08

DW doesn't hear about 95% of the things she does on a daily basis that make my life miserable, because the consequence when I mention the other 5% is, at best, an explanation that nothing can change, and that I will just have to put up with that particular aspect of shitness for the rest of my life. (And the consequence is seldom that good.)

What absolutely never ever happens as a result of my raising an issue is her deciding to do something differently in future.

ImNameyChangey · 30/04/2015 10:42

Nicki the food thing was also something I had to knock out of my otherwise VERY reasonable and feminist DH. He was amazed that I expected half of a takeaway...he didn't get furious but I could see that at first he was a bit disgruntled as every other woman he'd shared with would take less than him.

Not here mate! A woman doesn't generally eat as much as a man due to difference in body sizes etc but when there's any treats around...I'm getting half mate! Be it chocolate, takeaway...whatever!

ImNameyChangey · 30/04/2015 10:44

I'm so glad DH is aware. He's been teaching our DDs that men and boys are proven to interrupt more and GET AWAY with it more. HE read somewhere that it's taken as an accepted thing when boys butt in or boys interrupt. He's told them they're not to just accept that ever.

Fayrazzled · 30/04/2015 10:49

I see this in many of my female friends too- intelligent, professional, educated women doing FT or PT jobs in many cases- who run themselves ragged cow-towing to their husbands at home. I can't work out what it is: a lack of self-esteem? fear of being left? I've always started from the position my husband is lucky to have me! We're a partnership- no way am I going to become a domestic drudge with no mind of her own. (And I'm a SAHM).

LurcioAgain · 30/04/2015 10:51

Good for your DH, Fay. This sort of behaviour used to drive my DF mad when he was a university lecturer (with two daughters, so v sensitive to these issues). He said that regularly, when he was in the design studio working with female students on their projects, he'd have male students come up and actually put their work on top of the woman's, on her drawing board, and demand attention. He found he really had to get quite aggressive to get them to go away and wait their turn, then they'd stomp off muttering and grumbling about it being unfair!

LurcioAgain · 30/04/2015 10:51

Sorry, that was in answer to ImNamey! Oops, not with it this morning.

BabyTuckoo · 30/04/2015 10:53

Yanbu. I don't see this in my real-life friends (which is probably why they are my friends), but it's one of the things I've found most shocking about Mumsnet since I've been on it - not just the actively abusive relationships that posters seem to be unaware of as abusive, but the quieter, resigned lack of equality that seems to be normalised on so many threads. The resignedly miserable unequal housework/childcare threads are genuinely shocking to me.

Suzanne, I think that economic power is a large part of this. It's why I'm always being a voice of doom on threads about becoming a SAHM and am suspicious of those defensive 'We made the decision that was best for our family' lines that get trotted out.

I adore and trust my husband, who is a thoroughgoing feminist who more than does his fair share of household chores and childcare, but I would never voluntarily make myself economically dependent on him, quite apart from the importance to me of my professional identity.

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 30/04/2015 10:56

Hmmm, I think you need to remember that MN doesn't always accurately reflect RL. Eg the tv thread running on here at the moment - surely TV watching is only a tiny %age of a relationship? And listing the programmes a DH loves to watch but drive you mad could just as easily equate to "which is brilliant because I can do the crossword in peace" or "and that's when I go to the gym". But the discussion isn't (or wasn't just now) about what you do while DH watches Extreme Fishing Antique Nazis in the Attic, it was about in fathomable TV habits.

Plus any relationship involves compromise: I'm happy for DH to watch obscene amounts of sport given that's the biggest criticism I can put his way

If you are talking more generally about relationships where men " put their foot down", then if course YANBU

BabyTuckoo · 30/04/2015 10:57

Fay, that's interesting - can you say something about how it is you have managed a healthier marriage in terms of partnership stuff than your circle? I've never not worked - and at one point a million years ago, I supported DH when he was an unpaid intern - but it has seemed to me that some of the women who post on Mn about 'wifework' issues have sleepwalked into a position of economic dependence and then, after they have children, have difficulty asserting themselves as full partners within the marriage...? You clearly don't operate that way.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that women shouldn't be SAHMs, incidentally, it just strikes me that they and women who work very PT, are over-represented in the miserably unequal housework/childcare threads

Purplepoodle · 30/04/2015 11:04

Yep this was me until the kids arrived then his needs were put back. I expected him to step up foolishly and be a partner and parent, silly me. He's moving out this weekend. I'm a little sad but relieved that I won't have to negotiate around him

cailindana · 30/04/2015 11:07

YANBU to be depressed about it but YABU to be surprised. The vast majority of what girls are exposed to in society tells them that men come first. It is only be expected then that when they finally find their Prince Charming (or in fact when he finally comes along and decides for her that she belongs to him) that they feel duty-bound to hang onto him and please him. Instead of being incredulous at it, it makes more sense to look at why so many women and men end up in such unequal situations and see how we can change things for our daughters.

shewept · 30/04/2015 11:13

I know a few men and a few women who do this.

Its depressing, when marriages aren't a partnership and one is beneath the other.