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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be depressed that women atre STILL appeasing men for a quiet life?

223 replies

Hakluyt · 30/04/2015 09:24

When I was a young woman a million years it was considered quite normal for women to put their wishes, even in quite trivial things, second to their husbands' and then third once children arrived. Men were often expected to get the best chair, the best bits of food- the household tended to revolve around their needs.

And it sometimes seems to me that not much has changed. The number of threads on here where people talk about doing things "for a quiet life", giving in because "it's not worth the hassle- I can't be doing with the sighing and huffing". Even women putting up with crap and then getting secret revenge instead of talking about things like grown ups!

I just find it so depressing that little seems to have changed. Why are we still doing this?

OP posts:
minouwasminou · 30/04/2015 18:47

Thegreysheep...what would happen if you brightly asked: "Ooh, can we take the money saved by sharing a hotel room and use it for...insert whatever you feel is applicable...?"

Would the head honchos start forcing the men to bunk-up?
Would it draw attention to the discrepancy?

AvrilMarine · 30/04/2015 18:57

minou it wasn't my post, but what I do find depressing in this situation will be women won't back each other up, so anyone who complains will be isolated.

Collective social negotiation is the way to stamp out attitudes like this, but internalised misogyny can be just as bad as external attitudes.

It echoes how things "can" be socially: if one is at a family/social gathering and the older women are all "in the kitchen preparing food for the menfolk" and throwing sodden, shaming, guilt-inducing looks at all the others hussies who won't do this, it's hard to negotiate one's way out of it.

grumbleina · 30/04/2015 19:01

Topical. We have a new regime chez grumble about the washing, namely that I don't touch DH's anymore - figured since he appears to have forgotten how to use the machine he might like to re-learn.

He's not a horror, but more and more I find myself doing the 'keep the house nice' stuff. He does do chores, but as we get older and move more into a 30 something 'it's nice to have nice things' phase out of a 20 something 'the mugs are growing things' phase, it appears to be far more my job to maintain said creature comforts. He likes the creature comforts. He built a bunch of them (as did I, before we get 'that's his end of the bargain') and enjoys them being nice. But he is definitely... not getting worse, but not lifting his game the way I have, and I don't think we're far off a 'I just don't see the dirt' conversation. I suspect he knows that won't go well.

It's a bastard, it really is. And quite depressing.

Original poster
Hakluyt · 30/04/2015 19:06

Averil- so true. There are too many women who collude with this stuff.

OP posts:
suzannecanthecan · 30/04/2015 19:07

but what I do find depressing in this situation will be women won't back each other up, so anyone who complains will be isolated

well, yes, it is but then again the desire to stay in line with convention is quite strong in many people, in particular those who transgress gender norms often suffer social sanctions.

Women collude in male chauvinism because they are rewarded for toeing the line, also people weigh up their options for getting on in life and many women sense that they have a better chance if they align themselves with a successful man rather than try to become successful themselves.

Given that ambition is encouraged in men but often labelled as selfishness in women, and that most of the powerful people in our culture are men that should come as no surprise.

(I am attempting to explain not exonerate)

Aermingers · 30/04/2015 19:16

Plenty of men do appease women for a quiet life too. My husband for a start....

morage · 30/04/2015 19:21

I don't see men putting what their female partners want first. Cooking food they prefer, doing all or most of the housework and childcare, going on holiday where their female partner wants, watching TV their female partner wants to.

Appeasing a partner is about an every day pattern. Not just giving in to a partner who wants to decorate the house for example.

Sallystyle · 30/04/2015 20:00

My husband certainly does those things Morage Not 100% of the time but a lot of the time.

Tonight he cooked tea he knew I would like to please me. Other times we decide together. He never controls the TV remote, and yeah he does equal housework, some days much more than me and sometimes I do more depending on what else is going on but he has never considered it my job. My ex husband was the same way.

I know plenty of husbands who do the same.

I agree that reading MN it seems like women are most likely to appease their husbands at the expense of themselves but in real life it is not my reality or a lot of people's I know.

Stillwishihadabs · 30/04/2015 20:01

I just won't do it even though dh openly states that he wishes I would.Our marriage went through a very bad patch about 6 years ago and I think a lot of that was due to me Kotowing and keeping quiet about minor ?? grievances. The problem is at least they built up and the whole situation became intolerable for me.

Luckily I have always earnt as much or more pro rata as dh so the threat of my leaving and being self sufficient was no idle threat. Following this dh SAH for 2 years and following that we both worked pt. I like to think we have minimised the wifework. It still creeps in but at least I don't stay quiet.

fulltothebrim · 30/04/2015 20:09

Another one here who has a husband who tends to favour what I want.
He cooks things he knows I like, chooses wine that I like but wouldn't be his first choice, never hogs the TV, is happy for me to decide where we go on holiday, how to control our finances, whether to buy a new TV etc.

Yes I do most of the housework because I can. He is gone out of the house for work for often 110 hours a week. When he is at home he does as much as he can.

LadyFuckrington · 30/04/2015 20:15

I think there is an 'alpha' in most successful relationships. It's probably disproportionality men, to be fair, as women tend to be socialised to put themselves last.

But I'm certainly the Alpha in my marriage, I'm aware of it and make sure DH's needs are also met because he is very much the type to put himself last. But we watch my telly, I choose the houses and cars and holidays etc. It's just the way we work.

Sallystyle · 30/04/2015 20:17

I don't think we are that odd fulltothebrain I am sure there are plenty of husbands like ours aren't there?

You mostly get people talking about their marriages on here when there is a problem. I only know a few arseholes who always put their wishes first but most of the men I know aren't like that at all.

Stillwishihadabs · 30/04/2015 20:19

I think we have 2 wannabe alphas.

blushingbooty · 30/04/2015 20:33

DH and I trade off. I cannot leave the bedding for 2 weeks though he happily does and I don't see the point hoovering twice a week while he does.

I never wanted to be like my poor mum, putting herself last-always, not matter how much we begged her. I think, in a way, she liked it and martyred herself. Her mum was pretty toxic when young and all she wanted was to be loved and be the centre of her own family. We all have had to work so much over the years to counter that and only now is she starting to step out.

In regards to best food, I give DH it while he gives me it. When we have guests, they get it.

fulltothebrim · 30/04/2015 20:34

U2- agreed. We have bout a new house in the past few months- I went to view it alone while OH was at work, fell in love with it, we sold our existing property, he sorted out the new mortgage.
OH hadn't even seen the house. First time he saw inside was the day it became ours and got the keys.
He didn't get the opportunity to view before we bought it, but he said he didn;t need to. I had seen it and that was enough. It was the biggest purchase of his ( and our) life.

FutopiaDad · 30/04/2015 21:54

My father in law told me that marriage is a compromise and all about give and take. Wise words but think he meant that he gives and she takes as he does all the cooking, washing, cleaning, gardening and holidays only where she wants. He even wears clothes that she buys for him Hmm. I kid you not.

I have no idea which sex does it most but over on 'blokesnet' women are affectionately known as SWMBO so it happens to men a lot too.

Things that men want to buy, such as HiFi, has to have high 'WAF' (wife acceptance factor) or it cannot be bought, no matter how much you want it. In fact, the reason wireless has been such a hit is because no woman I know (except my gorgeous wife) would let their husbands trail speaker cables across the living room.

fulltothebrim · 30/04/2015 22:06

would let their husbands trail speaker cables across the living room.

Laughing at that one. My OH has tried several times. Thinks I won't notice network cables casually snaking over the house.

It's not a good idea for several reasons.

fulltothebrim · 30/04/2015 22:07

I buy all my OHs clothes.

He hates clothes shopping with a vengance. He is happy to let me do it.

Lottiedoubtie · 30/04/2015 22:18

In fact, the reason wireless has been such a hit is because no woman I know (except my gorgeous wife) would let their husbands trail speaker cables across the living room.

Indeed, it is the woman's fault that the children trip/strangle themselves on trailing wires or that she becomes irritated that she is supposed to hoover around trip hazards herself. What a bitch she is not understanding about the importance of decent speakers.

This 'my wife won't let me do that in the house' thing is a fallacy. If the man realised the implications of said thing/action then they wouldn't need to have 'permission' withdrawn.

morage · 30/04/2015 22:26

I am saddened by the idea that relationships would normally have someone who is an alpha in them. I have always sought equal relationships.

FutopiaDad · 30/04/2015 22:28

fulltothebrim

My other comments were a bit tongue in cheek but I know a few women who buy their husbands clothes. I love shopping so would find it weird if I didn't choose my own stuff but if your husband hates shopping then I guess that's fine.

I'm talking about a 70 year old guy that has not bought clothes since he got married because she doesn't like what he would buy. Totally different sadly. If that's not keeping the peace!

fulltothebrim · 30/04/2015 22:28

Well said Lottie. I was trying to be too polite!

Trailing wires are plainly stupid. Anyone who doesn't get that is thick.

FutopiaDad · 30/04/2015 22:33

I am saddened by the idea that relationships would normally have someone who is an alpha in them. I have always sought equal relationships.

I find it sad too but notice a lot that some of our friends are always fighting to get the upper hand. Like they're trying to get one over all the time as they can't be dominated by their partner.

OrlandoWoolf · 30/04/2015 22:42

A good relationship is about 2 people.If one person feels they are ignored, not listened to and eventually get to the point where they don't bother saying anything because it will be criticised, perceived as wrong and the other person wants their own way, that is not a healthy relationship.

If it gets to the point where one person feels like they are treading on egg shells,can predict the negative response, knows the other person thinks they are always right, knows they always want their own way and doesn't seem to care about the other person's needs,then it's time to get out.

It's not about trying to get one other on the other person. It's about caring about,listening,acknowledging the other person,accepting that in a relationship you might have different views and no one person should always be the dominant alpha and therefore their opinion goes.

That's what happened to me. I left. I deserved to be treated as a human being in a relationship. I did not want to tread on egg shells, be constantly criticised,undermined and not even listened to.

Kiwiinkits · 30/04/2015 22:44

Honestly? I think women of our generation whine a lot. If half the time they spend whining was spent doing something, anything, and being grateful then they'd be a lot happier.

Also, I think women tend to need to learn assertive communication styles. It's an extension of that "be a little bit selfish" theme. Decide what you want. Communicate it effectively. And then get on with it. Don't whine about it, hoping that whining will make it change.