AIBU to be depressed that women atre STILL appeasing men for a quiet life?

[Hakluyt]

When I was a young woman a million years it was considered quite normal for women to put their wishes, even in quite trivial things, second to their husbands' and then third once children arrived. Men were often expected to get the best chair, the best bits of food- the household tended to revolve around their needs.

And it sometimes seems to me that not much has changed. The number of threads on here where people talk about doing things "for a quiet life", giving in because "it's not worth the hassle- I can't be doing with the sighing and huffing". Even women putting up with crap and then getting secret revenge instead of talking about things like grown ups!

I just find it so depressing that little seems to have changed. Why are we still doing this?

I remember that thread Cailindana! I have was having the usual housework problems and after reading that I talked to DH and we agreed that he would take over doing the washing. He claims not to be able to see mess but he can't ignore an overflowing laundry basket and 2 children asking where their clothes are. It's worked out really well for us. Of course, he doesn't do it as well as I want ;) but I think that having creased clothes is a good enough trade off for not having to think about the washing ever again.

I love the way you think that because some men suffer emotional abuse we don't need to worry about women who live in unequal relationships, sometimes without even realising it. I'm not particularly clever, but I can actually worry about both things at the same time! Shocking I know.

Jessica, bravo!

"Of course, he doesn't do it as well as I want ;) but I think that having creased clothes is a good enough trade off for not having to think about the washing ever again."

So you have to be grateful for him doing something not very well?

love the way you think that because some men suffer emotional abuse we don't need to worry about women who live in unequal relationships, sometimes without even realising it

Can you point out where I said we don't have to worry about women in unequal relationships?

Ha ha! No Hakluyt I don't have to be grateful, that's not what I was saying, I was saying that I feel relieved that I never have to do it again!

Sorry Orlando, I wanted to make a general point about what some people think. I shouldn't have quote you to do it, because it was totally out of context. Sorry.

Apology accepted - I went through a massive period of what was looking back emotional abuse. I never realised it at the time -but MN has made me see it for what it was.

I have found myself again.

Hak, I don't think it's unreasonable to be frustrated that progress towards equality is so grindingly so. But I do think we should take heart from the fact that women are beginning to realise that real inequality still exists and that that view is now a bit more mainstream and not just confined to the FWR boards.

I remember a thread you started quite some years ago which referenced terminology and casual sexism and there was a huge amount of denial. I think posts on MN nowadays quite often demonstrate that women are waking up to the fact that it shouldn't be like this and doesn't have to be like this. It's startling when you look back at some posters and remember prior posts where they simply denied it happened to them and now they can see it for what it is and they've become the most vocal of supporters for women and equality.

It's where one of the main values of MN is for me - it allows women a voice and the more they talk, the more they are allowed room to express opinions and question it, the more confidence they have to challenge it. It's hugely disruptive to women's lives to change the status quo or to be the lone voice in RL expressing discontent but I see real change happening and women becoming more engaged.

What I don't see happening is men ever taking the initiative or coming to this awareness themselves. I think I underestimated how much of the work women would have to do to drive through that change. I also underestimated that as much progress as women make in this area, this would be undermined, to some extent, by new issues arising such as sexting and the damage that social media can do, particularly to younger women and girls.

I think that women need to realise that the 'small' casual sexism about name changing on marriage, gender roles, Mrs/Ms etc etc is the foundation on which the really harmful sexism depends. It's not petty, it supports an entire system of discrimination that leads to rape, assault, domestic violence, economic disparity etc and women need to stop dismissing it.

Women need to take what they learn from other women and support other women and call out sexism each and everytime otherwise they are complicit. We all want the quiet life but it simply isn't an option if we also want fundamental change in social attitudes.

yes, lets just say that one touched a nerve and I lost the ability to be polite.

Seems you also lost the ability to read the sarcasm in my post but never mind.

Maybe your sarcasm was laced with an unsavoury opinion or maybe your sarcasm was another posters truth so hard to tell apart.

Or yeah I could just be thick. That's bound to be it.

No you're not thick and I'd never make such an accusation.

I'm sorry if I hit a nerve but it was only meant as a tongue in cheek observation. But yes, whilst it's a joke to me, some women clearly find it objectionable and enough for you to launch into me like that

This is aibu but will tread more carefully in future

Sometimes the "Oh, I was on,y joking- can't you take a joke?" thing wears a bit thin, to be honest...............

Ask yourselves. How often in the history of the world has a wife said to a husband "Have I got any clean pants?"

Me, just the other night. Clean washing on the 'where clean washing goes' chair and another load finishing in the tumble dryer, I asked DP if there were any clean knickers on the chair.

DP is the SAHD. Never has anything not been discussed, or looked over, for a quiet life. On either side. It also doesn't mean we have role reversal. And we both usually cover what each other does not like. I hate cooking so only tend to do it once or twice a week. He hates using bleach so I do the bathroom and kitchen. We both take responsibility for bills. And whilst he is DCs main carer, we have equal care when I'm home.

We're not 'modern' or 'different' we just do it the way that suits us. I don't view myself as lucky to have DP in the way being discussed here but I'm fortunate we have an equal and relatively easy partnership.

Cheers for the support Hak and Callin I think I'm going to stop biting at it now, point proved and all that.

I asked the pants question to my husband last year several times when I was ill with HG, so obv not up to doing the washing. The answer was often sadly no. We used to be cough equal on the laundry front, but that wasn't the reality and despite being a "good" husband and a lovely supportive man he "couldn't" keep up with the washing. I don't get it to be honest, he always had clean work shirts, the bills always got paid and he was always loving and sympathetic to me when he was home from work. Happy to go on missions of mercy to the supermarket to get whatever i thought I might be able to tolerate... but my pants? blind spot.

I do all the washing now. And I'm happier- but a little bit of me has died all the same.

I didn't suggest that she couldn't take a joke, just pointing out that it'd clearly gone over her head.

The difficulty with threads like this is that you're always going to get a one sided view of the opposite sex. Some opposing views are put across but they're going to be in the minority so the outcome is biased one way.

Go visit 'blokesnet' and the results will invariably be equal and opposite.

But of course, because men aren't oppressed then men that do things for a quiet life can't be compared so the discussion is moot.

In fact I'd go one further and suggest that this thread doesn't even belong in aibu as it should be in relationships or something. What's to be unreasonable about?

When you're asking why the women here are still appeasing men, instead of having a grown up conversation, you're putting the onus on the victim.

Really the issue is men taking the fucking piss. If they didn't do that then there wouldn't be an issue. It's not the responsibility of women to point out character failures in their partners. They're grown up enough to know bloody better.

Imho of course

It wasn't a joke. I understood your intention I just didn't like it.

But well done, you did get me to bite once more.

It's not appropriate for you to police the conversation. The irony of a man attempting to police the parameters of a conversation about woman appeasing men cannot be lost on someone who enjoys a joke as much as you. And before you deny doing that, I'll quote you:

Really the issue is

this thread doesn't even belong in aibu

as it should be in

The difficulty with threads like this is

Hak asked in her OP why we are still doing this (appeasing men). Whilst I'm sure you, as a man, have a role to play in the discussion if you so desire, that role certainly isn't dictating the way we talk about this or derailing it by starting arguments with me about whether or not I can understand your very clever jokes.

ok.

Maybe you should re read my post, instead of putting snippets of it in a random sentence generator and coming out with gibberish.

Perhaps if you did that you'd see quite easily that I'm not policing anything.

But hey, this is aibu and people do look for bun fights so knock yourself out

BurkeDad1 Do a search on the Relationships board sometime. You will find plenty of threads where men withhold sex and/or affection as power play.

FutopiaDad the original post wasn't actually funny. As Lottie mentioned speaker cables are an obvious trip hazard (also potentially no good for the longevity of the cables).

Framing the situation as "something I do to appease her indoors as it's one of her little whims and foibles" is bizarre and doesn't make sense.

Taking gender out of it, if someone did that at work (male colleague/female colleague, whatever) they would be considered thick and careless for putting their other colleagues at risk.

The original post suggests you wanted to patronise and typecast women/your wife as these irrational, moody creatures who you do irrational things for to keep the peace. Which means their opinions can be dismissed.

I also sense you called your wife "gorgeous" in the post (when there really was no need for that, it's a visually anonymous forum) in order for readers to infer you are a loving husband, and conceal the underlying sense of bitchy passive-aggressiveness.

When dp worked full time (me sahm) I would happily do the housework and the house was reasonably tidy. Now he's on part time (so am i-we work together) the house is a mess because when he is not working, and just sitting watching telly, I refuse to do any housework and will sit and mn. Why should I work when he's not? He will generally vacuum and wash up, he's just started bringing the dirty washing down from the bathroom (but never actually puts a load on)

Avril

You really are reading far too much into it IMO and Lottie's experience must be of the complete minority if cables represent a trip hazard. I mean seriously? Was mumsnet of the 80's filled with posts complaining about kids strangling themselves? I don't think so. How many people have ever tripped over speaker cable when, for most normal people, it's tidily routed adjacent to the skirting boards (along with the tv and aerial cables incidentally).

But actually, my op was not about foibles, as you call it, but basically the very common scenario whereby a man wants to buy 'xyz' and so instigates a conversation with their partner only to be told, "we're not having that in the house/living room etc.". It's not about asking permission, as some have balked at, but a woman putting her foot down and the man appeasing the wife.

If you want to mention typecast then the original op is typecasting a one sided view of women here that fits a single narrative. Your post is laughable really as you talk about 'irrational' and 'moody' but to quote the op:

"it's not worth the hassle- I can't be doing with the sighing and huffing".

If that's not typecasting men. But it's easy to overlook when you're looking in one direction.

Anyway, I'm not saying women are moody or irrational. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that women may well appease men but I also have experience, as do loads of other men, that men also do a hell of a lot of appeasing too.

That's not a 'wot about the menz' or competition statement but at the time the thread had started to discuss men appeasing their partners. Therefore the post was valid, even if it was tongue in cheek.

I'm a bazillion years old, and it does depress me, and confuse me too.
I think the sleepwalking into things has a lot to do with it. No one actually stopping, looking at a specific situation or incident and thinking, 'Hang on...Why?'
That and the expectation of telepathy between a couple, that one should 'Just know' what the other expects or why they are irritated or feeling valueless, without having to use such mundane things as words to be specific.
I lived with OH in a student house for a couple of years before we got our own place. Everyone pulled their weight, and he'd been out of the parental home for a decade before I met him. A fully functioning, intelligent adult who could be reasoned with. Like me.

' the very common scenario whereby a man wants to buy 'xyz' and so instigates a conversation with their partner only to be told, "we're not having that in the house/living room etc.'

Futopiahe first part of that scenario has happened in our house a number of times, from both of us. The second part would be the one objecting would have to give a logical reason to back up their objection and the discussion would revolve around seeing if there was a compromise possible.
Sometimes it is, but if not, it would have been the reasons behind the decision that would have swayed the argument. Not a hissy fit.

IME men often don't much value having influence over the domestic sphere so the scenario where the wife puts her foot down over the colour of the sofa is actually a bit of a joke to them.
They concede power over decor and what not because these are feminine concerns and therefore of low importance ?

I know I don't know how anyone could be bothered. I never run round after dh.