AIBU to be depressed that women atre STILL appeasing men for a quiet life?

[Hakluyt]

When I was a young woman a million years it was considered quite normal for women to put their wishes, even in quite trivial things, second to their husbands' and then third once children arrived. Men were often expected to get the best chair, the best bits of food- the household tended to revolve around their needs.

And it sometimes seems to me that not much has changed. The number of threads on here where people talk about doing things "for a quiet life", giving in because "it's not worth the hassle- I can't be doing with the sighing and huffing". Even women putting up with crap and then getting secret revenge instead of talking about things like grown ups!

I just find it so depressing that little seems to have changed. Why are we still doing this?

Good relationships are about working out what is best for both parties. Why does anyone need to judge? Plenty of examples have been given of different ways of doing it yet still we are supposed to believe that the women are the victims here.

My DP often cooks and when he does he cooks things that he knows I'll love. (We had salmon and salad tonight - for me) He puts me first in many, many things but we argue over the housework because I am untidy but clean everything with hot water and chemicals whereas he is fanatically tidy but would never dust and uses the same cleaning cloth for a week.
So who is appeasing? No-one - it is a relationship.

I'm a man and i appease my wife for a quiet life all the time.

Does that depress you? Or is it only if its a woman appeasing a man you find it depressing?

McColonel sadly there are plenty people out there who think it's "just a bit of a laugh" that you appease your wife for a quiet life whereas if you told us she appeased you, you would be an evil oppressor.

The double standards displayed on this site is frankly shocking at times.

"I'm a man and i appease my wife for a quiet life all the time.

Does that depress you? Or is it only if its a woman appeasing a man you find it depressing?"

It depends on why you do it. If it's because that's the only way you know to be in a relationship, or if you are frightened to assert yourself because you don't have the physical, psychological or financial power to do so, then yes of course that's depressing.

I don't see it often tbh. I'm not friends with those sort of women.

But yes I'd be eye rolling behind closed doors if I do see this and my heart does sink every time a women's name changes on fab or her profile pic is her in a white dress.

It's like no one really want change or equality sometimes.

I am one of 'those' sorts of women. I don't want to be, I often find myself angry and frustrated, but unable to change things now.

I have been married 37 years.

Things were different when I first married, I was young, naive and did everything, simply because it was easier. This continued throughout my married life.

I do blame myself in a lot of ways. I do just about everything in the house, my DH has not cooked a meal for both of us ever, will do things if I tell him to, but it never occurs to him to just do it off his own back.

However, when he does wander into the kitchen and starts doing things, or empties the tumble drier, it irritates the shit out of me because he only does it when I am there, when I am doing exactly the same job, so I tend to snap at him to just let me get on with it.

I acknowledge this is my problem, created and lovingly tended by me. If I had my time again, it would not be the same, but I am settling for a quiet life now.

I am not outrageously happy, but I am content. It is a sad thing to say about my life, but it is what it is now. My two sons are the exact opposite, they have wonderfully equal relationships with their partners, this gives me a glow of pleasure and pride.

As a matter of interest, in my working life I am assertive and successful. Colleagues would never believe the downtrodden woman they would find at home.

"I don't see it often tbh. I'm not friends with those sort of women."

I would not be at all surprised if you find that you are friends with "those sort of women". Most of us are "those sort of women" in some way.

I doubt it, most of my friends are lesbians or single mothers or both

Why would your heart sink to see a profile pic of someone in her wedding dress or if someone changes her name?

I changed my name and I had my wedding pic up as my profile for a while as I liked the photo. I looked nice, I don't define myself by my marriage or anything. I wanted to change my name, my birth name means nothing to me as it came from my evil dad. I was glad to get rid of it and the association with the name.

Don't let your heart sink for me. I have been happily married for 9 years to a man who treats me extremely well and I most certainly have equality in my marriage. Changing my name and having a wedding picture for a while doesn't change that. I am not the kind of person who would do more housework etc just because I am female and I don't appease men for an easier life. Lived with my mum who did for so many years and I am the total opposite because of that.

Tooold

I'm not going to derail this thread by rehashing every fwr thread there's been on women changing their names upon marriage.

Well said Lottie. I was trying to be too polite!

Trailing wires are plainly stupid. Anyone who doesn't get that is thick.

yes, lets just say that one touched a nerve and I lost the ability to be polite.

I changed my name on marriage, I didn't think about it much at the time to be honest, and I do like it- probably more than my other name. Whether or not I'd do it again I'm not sure, but I would always want to have the same name as my husband/children... And so that opens another can of worms.

Woman can't be expected to fight a personal war on every front, it's exhausting.

"I doubt it, most of my friends are lesbians or single mothers or both grin"

Actually, I know a lesbian couple where this dynamic operates. Drives me bonkers!!!

In fact, the reason wireless has been such a hit is because no woman I know (except my gorgeous wife) would let their husbands trail speaker cables across the living room.

"Indeed, it is the woman's fault that the children trip/strangle themselves on trailing wires or that she becomes irritated that she is supposed to hoover around trip hazards herself. What a bitch she is not understanding about the importance of decent speakers.

This 'my wife won't let me do that in the house' thing is a fallacy. If the man realised the implications of said thing/action then they wouldn't need to have 'permission' withdrawn."

Applause for Lottie!!

The whole "I have to get permission from the wife" thing is an insidious extension of the idea of the woman being everybody's mother, even her husbands. So she washes his skidmarked pants and she also tells him off when he tried to do something patently stupid like trail the house with trip hazards. If these men actually took an adult role in their own relationship then they would make decisions that fit with their responsibilities as a partner and a parent. Coming up with something stupid and then complaining when the wife inevitably has to be the "bad guy" and put her foot down and all that shit is incredibly immature, but a lot men do it.

The whole "I have to get permission from the wife" thing is an insidious extension of the idea of the woman being everybody's mother,

but if a woman has to get her husbands permission he is a controlling abuser?

No one should be getting anybody's permission 0x - it's a partnership where equal adults discuss things and come to a mutual decision.

"The whole "I have to get permission from the wife" thing is an insidious extension of the idea of the woman being everybody's mother,

but if a woman has to get her husbands permission he is a controlling abuser?"

I don't think this thread is about controlling abusers. It's about a dynamic where the man's needs and wishes are automatically given more weight than the woman's. In some cases the man might well not even realize it's happening- it's been so normalised in so many relationships for so long. Of course there are men who appease women in relationships. But often what appears to be appeasement isn't really. The classic situation where a man refuses a third pint with a "better not, mate or I'll get grief from 'er indoors" conveniently forgets that he has already had the two pints and been out without considering babysitting or what's going on at home.

Of course there are men who appease women in relationships. But often what appears to be appeasement isn't really

I love the way you seem to dismiss this. There are men who are emotionally abused, whose opinions are dismissed, whose partners want their way all the time, whose wives expect to be the "alpha" partner and who don't want an equal relationship. Where men don't even offer an opinion because they know they won't be listened to.

If that was the other way round, it would be called emotional abuse.

"I love the way you seem to dismiss this."

I'm not. But as I said, this thread isn't really about emotional abuse. It's about the dynamics of "ordinary" relationships, and how it is often seen as normal for men's needs and wishes to be prioritised.

Depressingly I see myself in some of these descriptions. I don't know why I'm such a doormat. I'm like it in other relationships as well as my marriage.

I'm the breadwinner and he does more housework than me but the general dynamic is him first I think. This is my fault rather than his, genuinely.

"I love the way you seem to dismiss this"

I love the way you think that because some men suffer emotional abuse we don't need to worry about women who live in unequal relationships, sometimes without even realising it. I'm not particularly clever, but I can actually worry about both things at the same time! Shocking I know.

This thread isn't about emotional abuse, or domestic violence, or FGM. It is about sexism which is so normalised many people don't even realise that there is a problem.

I am sat here wondering which camp I fall into. I think we are equal in the important stuff, but maybe others observing me would think that this household revolves around my DH.

EG : I do have a rush around at about 6 making sure his "comfort" areas are tidy - ie no toys in lounge, cushions plumped up on settee. He doesn't usually get home till at least 7, at which time the DC's are generally ready for bed. It's no skin off my nose to do this. I want him to want to come home and know that he is eagerly awaited. Which is one of the reasons I've never done the "just you wait till your Father gets home" thing.

So what does that make me - a doormat or someone who has just made traditional (for want of a better word) choices that may make no sense to others?

i talked to my mom about this after my dad died and she seemed very lost, she'd spent her marriage dressing, cooking and living entirely for him, she's having a hard journey learning who she is as a person.

She said its partly because its how she was bought up, her Dad was an army Sergeant Major during the war, and he very much had the personality for it at home, he ruled the house with an iron fist, and her mother did everything for him, so she didnt know any different.

My dad was very ill, so doing his job was all he could manage, he was in and out of hospital for many years, so mom had to do all the cooking and child care as dad simply couldn't. When he was out of danger, his illness meant his diet was very restricted, so the food in the house always revolved around what he could eat and mom didnt like cooking more than one meal.

She did work part time, and dad used to look after us on those days, taking us swimming and so on.

Their social life revolved around him being the local club chairman, so she stopped going out as she was bored going to the same place, mom didnt have many friends as she's quite introverted so didnt go out without him, dad paid for most of her clothes, so she wore what he liked.

She said she never set out to lose herself in him, but it just happened, but by bit, it creeps up on you.

undeuxtwatcinq, if you do it because you want to then that is obviously a choice. If you do it for the sake of a quiet life (ie he'll be pissed off if you don't) then that seems more of a problem to me. Equally if he never does anything nice for you just to be kind then that suggests an unequal relationship.

I don't think anyone is saying there's a problem with doing nice things for each other, and considering the other person's feelings is obviously part of a loving relationship.

For instance - I often make DP's fave tea when I know he's had a hard day. Equally, he picks up some wine on his way home from work if he knows I've had a hard day. If it was always me doing nice things and never him then that'd piss me off, and vice versa. If he got annoyed because I didn't make fajitas then I'd be pissed off. If I got annoyed because he didn't bring wine home I'm sure he'd be pissed off too.

My dad is like this with my step mum. She's frequently told me that she thinks he got married so he could be a kept man. I see it in their house - his way seems to go all the time and she is sub servient to him. We've had lots of chats and I honestly don't know why they are together. It's been 12 years. He's sexist - I want to say he's a product of his time but there are men who aren't like that/

She said she never set out to lose herself in him, but it just happened, but by bit, it creeps up on you

I lost myself. I became unvalued and felt worthless and pointless in a relationship. I didn't want my own way. I just wanted to be acknowledged,listened to and to not have my thoughts and opinions constantly undermined. It makes you feel worthless.