Scottish identity

[chocoluvva]

Do you feel you have one?

If you're not Scottish living in Scotland, do you think there is a Scottish identity?

OOAOML Do you think Boris is doing the bumbling buffoon thing deliberately Choc? I cannot see him as PM. Ed seems to be getting more confident these days, I can see him as PM. Hopefully not Cameron again. Especially not after he threw Labour under a bus on 19th September

I suspect he is clever enough to get away with it. In other words, it doesn't really damage his reputation, but only adds to it. I get BBC London or South East or whatever its called here, and he is on it all the time, dealing with local issues, and his attention to the small, relatively important stuff is impressive. He can talk off the cuff and no amount of briefing can prepare for that - he genuinely has an interest in sorting stuff out. Equally, I've heard him discuss non-London and south east issues, and its the same. I did think he was a bit of an idiot until I actually started listening to him - he is absolutely not. He is a character, in an era which is sadly lacking in those.

I think Ed Miliband would be an utter disaster. He makes me think he is permanently on the edge of Henry McLeish's famous "muddle instead of a fiddle". His brother was far more statesmanlike, and I think Labour made a grave error in picking Ed.

Bakewell I think Cameron is well controlled usually rather than a quiet type, but sometimes lets the arrogance leak.

Yes, probably. But you need an arrogant leader on the world, or at least the European stage, and he is very well respected as someone you cannot push around. His speech writers are also very good.

Johnson has charisma but so what. He is an elitist who doesn't translate outside of London or the moneyed world imo.

The Scottish Government is full of little elitists, safe in their protected little career politics world, which has rarely involved going out into the real world and getting jobs where you have to compete with a variety of well educated/talented people. Its so obvious that the Scottish Government lacks properly qualified, experienced people in a number of areas, competition law being one, and that it has real public procurement issues. But who would want to work for them?

As for the Oxbridge thing, people clamour to get there from all over the world. I have never heard so many derogatory statements about it other than in Scotland. And even in Scotland, schools like Anderson High School regularly send pupils there. My uncle was one.

Thank you Tillybob

"At the moment you can't trust that their stated ideals are anything other than a bribe for the scottish voters who are dis-enchanted with the status quo.

I agree with many of their policies but suspicious of their real intentions."

Absolutely - where I find myself is that labour have shifted too far right for me, I don't think they've kept track of where their support is while trying to catch Tory voters (including Scotland) and I'm in what was a safe labour seat, so I'm voting SNP as I am at least supportive of some of their policies...unlike say UKIP's. It is pretty much a protest vote.

Who I'll vote for next time will depend very much on what happens afterwards.

The Scottish Government is full of little elitists, safe in their protected little career politics world, which has rarely involved going out into the real world and getting jobs where you have to compete with a variety of well educated/talented people. Its so obvious that the Scottish Government lacks properly qualified, experienced people in a number of areas, competition law being one, and that it has real public procurement issues. But who would want to work for them?

I thought I'd look into this and see what the career history is of the Scottish government.

Past careers of the cabinet are:

Lawyer
Management consultant
Marine
Advocate (Scottish barrister)
Social worker
Community worker
Career politician
Occupational therapist
Career politician/ environmental development officer (local government)
Marketing manager

Past careers of the other ministers:

Lawyer
Forestry then councillor
Councillor
EC competition lawyer
Magazine editor
Librarian
Career politician
Teacher then councillor
Career politician
Career politician
Citizens advice bureau manager
Economist/consultant then councillor
Policy researcher
Career politician

It raises the question of who do we want in Government?

Should they all be graduates? What careers are 'missing'?

There does seem to be a few too many career politicians.

How does this compare to the current condem government or labours 1997-2010 wm one of the lib lab Scottish one from 1999-2007?

Ideally, you would want some people with experience of running businesses I think. And some people with a more established career in whatever field they were in, rather than just a few token years before going into politics. I don't think the local councillor into politics career does anyone any favours really, and I think we are in danger of being over-represented in Scotland by career politicians who have come up by this route.

There are certainly more than a few Scottish MPs and MSPs who are very young and have simply graduated then gone into politics. I think there should be some minimum requirement of work experience outwith politics required, but it would be very hard to implement.

I certainly don't think they should all be graduates, but if not, they should have good previous work or business experience. I'd rather see that than for example a 21 year old Arts graduate.

Its often selected on who wants to do it and has political ambition, rather than any great talent for the job. If I think about some of the quality people I have worked with in Scotland in the past, none of them would go into politics, and not just because they are too busy doing their jobs, but because being surrounded by career politicians is rather a poisoned chalice I suspect.

Which one is the EU competition lawyer by the way?

Annabelle Ewing

Yes there is a lack of sme entrepreneurs.

I suppose a lot is to do with having to be available full time, unpaid for at least the 6 week run up to an election with no guarantee you'll get the job. I imagine that is a huge barrier for lots of people!

I like that the age range is more representative than was the case with politics in the past. Although this is obviously going to come at the expense of previous life/work experience.

Having more women in there will also change the most common careers since the labour market is still quite gender segregated.

Annabelle Ewing - thank you. Excellent background but seems slightly wasted on domestic politics!

But in terms of elitism, she comes from what could fairly be described as a Scottish clan of SNP politicians. All educated in the west of Scotland, all lawyers, her brother and mother are also career politicians.

Not really your normal Scottish family!

If you have been involved locally in political parties, you will know it is not a meritocracy. Candidates are selected on the basis of being liked and supported by those who have power. This is especially the case for MPs.

I'd totally agree with the "more experience of a career" element. I've noticed a fair few candidates across the parties who have only worked for a couple of years before going in to politics. I'm not saying we shouldn't have any younger people, but I would like to see a bit more depth and breadth of experience.

And for me, there are not enough obvious "numbers" people. I want people who can look at data and really scrutinize and understand what it means. There might be some hidden there in non-obvious jobs but, whilst I'm not suggesting a cabinet of bankers, some more economists/accountants/statisticians/actuaries/mathematicians etc wouldn't go amiss IMO.

none of them would go into politics, and not just because they are too busy doing their jobs, but because being surrounded by career politicians is rather a poisoned chalice I suspect.

And probably because they wouldn't get paid enough.

Hmm, I get pretty fed up with the notion that politicians must be charismatic and good performers. That shouldn't be their role. Deeds, not words, that's what should matter. There are a lot of very well spoken, articulate orators in politics who do fuck all good for anyone. Boris Johnson doesn't impress me one bit. He's a buffoon who'd get eaten alive outwith London.

If someone is a good speaker and follows through with their promised actions, great. But it's the latter that counts. Give me Jimmy Reid any day!

I'd agree with that Agent. I was given the v good advice "Beware charisma!"

On the conservative side of things I always had a good impression of John Howard in Australia - very grey but dependable-looking!

DH has spoken! It's all basically run by the civil service! This was in answer to me saying that the three 'main' parties are just different degrees of the same thing. DH reckons the difference between them is even less - 'window dressing' was his exact phrase and he includes snp' (economic) policies in that.

I'd like to have a proper discussion of economic policy - including proper reference to historical and long-term deficits and national debts. This is never openly discussed by politicians. How government bonds work, how the IMF operates etc.

And a mix of analytical number-crunching politicians and people with actual principles or religious beliefs guiding their judgment who could discuss not just electoral models but the philosophy behind so called 'socialism', laissex-faire v 'nanny-state politics', and for goodness sake a proper discussion about what we can realistically expect the NHS to provide and what we should expect of individuals in terms of managing their own health. The difficulty is, I presume, that if you're brave enough to say, 'Stop over-eating, sitting around (says choco from her sedentary position ), drinking too much and doing drugs - it cost the NHS too much you'll lose votes. What do we want from our education system - we don't get a say in it - education for the modern world, or education to change the world? A smattering of knowledge about a lot of subjects or in-depth study of fewer subject? Focus on 'added value' 'soft skills' or more academic content. Financial education, sex and relationships education, religious education, cooking, PE, staying safe; do we want all these to be part of school life?

As for foreign policy...... who knows? America in in decline IMO. Should we be putting all our eggs in one basket with them? Would it matter if we no longer had a seat at the international summits (the question is, of course, who would replace us? - but really, are we paying a massive price to feed the macho egos of some of our leaders?)

And we need some really knowledgeable scientists who can pick their way through long-term sustainable plans to provide energy and understand the benefits of investing in research into science and technology.

With the exception of discussion about whether to renew trident the snp is an annoying distraction IMO!

choco
Technology is more my interest - I think that's why I'm underwhelmed at the cleverness of Boris J with his Ancient Greek. And don't get me started on Alex Salmond and Mediaeval History...

Apparently 'yes, minister' is still a very accurate picture of how government is run.

Certainly our council seems to be mainly run by the 'officials' - I remember a councillor telling me that it was 'very hard to vote against a recommendation from the officials'. Ours also approved very controversial plans for development on council property without the application even going to the planning committee (where councillors would actually get to make a decision). When I asked what he was going to do about it he told me he nothing could be done.

God, Bakewell, I know. 'What are the essential criteria for running the country?' 'Oh, I know, giving charming lectures on ancient Greece and being able to play Greensleeves on a lute.' 'Yes, you'll not sort out child poverty without either of those on your cv.'

Yes I think there's should be much more scrutiny over who our civil service are rather than just the politicians.

There has still never been a female cabinet secretary (probably the second most powerful person in the country).

Does anyone even know his name?

Ooh! No!

Maybe in the next GE we'll have the option of voting for the 'Women's Equality Party' leading light of which is Sandi Toksvig......