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Original poster

Who is unreasonable and how can I be reasonable? Dress codes

156 replies

LegalEagels · 26/04/2015 14:24

I work for an international law firm in quite a large office. I manage two interns who are both excellent at their jobs and most probably will be offered training contracts at the end of their internships.

The issue here is: Everyone wears either suits etc or what you'd imagine to be professional gear, however, one of the interns turns up to work everyday in clothes better suited to nightclubs. I personally think she looks good and can carry it off (she's not exactly wearing a red leather catsuit) but I do admit that it's not entirely appropriate or the style the rest of the office adopts. I have no issue with what she wears, tbh she does a great job and it's my goal to help her become a qualified.

One of the managers from another department approached me earlier this week to ask me to talk to her about her appearance / attire. Our office doesn't have an exact policy on dress code but what is acceptable is generally understood. I know that others have gossiped about her choice of clothes. My main manager hasn't mentioned anything to me, but having said that he's generally away from the office so perhaps hasn't noticed or too busy with other things to take notice of an interns choice of clothes.

There is a very real risk that she won't be offered a training contract as it's not just me on the panel that will interview her. And indeed if she's bringing herself this negative attention chances are it looks unlikely.

Now, would it be unreasonable to say something to her? and how without being unreasonable myself? Or should I tell that other manager to keep his beak out? Even though he will most likely be on the panel.

OP posts:
MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 27/04/2015 14:38

Well you'd think an international law firm could afford to pay people working there Hmm

Every professinal services firm I work with in the UK pays their interns.

Original poster
LegalEagels · 27/04/2015 15:06

Moving, when did I say we didn't pay them? Of course we do. But until they land a TC they're not really a part of the firm, as I said, they're very disposable. I can't remember the poster who said it upthread but I do really suspect that this is a strategy more than it is ignorance. Haven't seen her yet today. I'll probably speak to her later in the week. I'd rather even just send an e-mail.

OP posts:
Original poster
LegalEagels · 27/04/2015 15:14

I didn't want to contact HR at all actually. If someone has reported her, they'd still need to go through me in order for her to be fired or whatever other consequence. Goodnessgraciousgouda, it really is just a general understanding of what is acceptable so there's isn't a written policy though at least if she doesn't get taken on she will have made an impact as I'd have to advise HR to draft some sort of dress code.

OP posts:
CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 27/04/2015 15:23

No! You can't chicken out of this with an email!! Speak to her in person FFS !

TheClacksAreDown · 27/04/2015 15:29

Goodness me no email! This absolutely has to be done in person.

Timeandtune · 27/04/2015 15:43

Is it possible she is short of money and can't afford new clothes?

JessieMcJessie · 27/04/2015 15:43

Sending an email would be terrible management OP. You need tonspeaknto her in person.

Original poster
LegalEagels · 27/04/2015 15:54

I know I know! I won't e-mail but this is a real first for me. I've never in the past 20 years had to have this conversation with anyone let alone an intern. I've seen interns wearing over-sized and badly measured suits. But they all came into their own eventually. This is something really new to me. I can't even really understand why you'd do that!? As someone mentioned upthread you only bend the rules when you're in a position to do so. It's self-sabotage really but she doesn't see it that way. Even if a few of the men take notice of her, they certainly don't take notice of her work. I really should be working atm and not Mnetting... I actually think I might be over involved. She's not my daughter fgs!

OP posts:
KoalaDownUnder · 27/04/2015 16:00

Just get on with it! This is nuts.

And no, I don't think all this faffing about is at all professional, so we'll have to agree to disagree there. One of the key purposes of an HR department is to deal with issues like this. A young, inexperienced employee (she's on the payroll, regardless of her contractual status), is dressing inappropriately. That's a 10-minute closed-door conversation, during working hours. Either do it yourself, or handball it to HR, for goodness' sake!

KoalaDownUnder · 27/04/2015 16:03

Just read your update - eh, none of this makes sense, so I'm out. (And no, you're not over-invested - it's your job! Under-invested, if anything...Hmm)

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 27/04/2015 16:03

Like all tricky conversations, getting started is the hardest part (so plan what you are going to say first); it won't be as bad as you fear; afterwards you'll wonder why you kept putting it off

TheClacksAreDown · 27/04/2015 16:12

Over involved? No, you're under involved. Don't go around reading too much into why she might be diong it. She probably simply hasn't picked up that it isn't OK to wear what she is wearing. Call her, tell her to come and see you and this can be over in 5 minutes.

Original poster
LegalEagels · 27/04/2015 16:20

I only say that Koala as it's been on my mind this whole day. She's meant to be leaving at 6pm, in ur time 7pm (if ur in UK), so I actually just want to do it today. Interviews are this time next week so perhaps she's already screwed as panel was confirmed today. I really should do it today, I should have done it probably 6 months ago.

OP posts:
TheClacksAreDown · 27/04/2015 16:32

She's been with you six MONTHS?!?

MsPerfect · 27/04/2015 16:38

Just drop her an email and ask if you can have a quick chat and can she meet you in a meeting room in 5 mins?

Then explain the situation. Work is excellent, clothes less so. Emphasise that sadly it could make it or break it for her.

Job done. Just do it.

Timeandtune · 27/04/2015 17:36

Would you like me to do it for you?

ChangingTiming · 27/04/2015 17:59

Definitely need to say something!

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 27/04/2015 18:06

I'm out too. None of this rings true and if it is then it's the least professional international firm I've ever encountered.

Not an employee but is paid and working with what looks to all intents and purposes to be a contract of employment Confused

Waiting 6 months to address a problem despite being a senior manager with twenty years experience Confused

Failing to recognise this sort of thing is well within the remit of a manager Confused

Not saying anything when her underwear is on show Confused

Deciding it's a conscious strategy Hmm Hmm Hmm

Original poster
LegalEagels · 27/04/2015 19:37

Sorry to have offended so much you MovingOn. I've asked her to come to my office tomorrow lunch. I've probably failed her in some way as a manager but the other intern managed to deal just fine. With her talent I'm sure she'll eventually end up fine. Clacks, yes, internships tend to last 6 months before assessment and the like.

OP posts:
emotionsecho · 27/04/2015 20:23

Sadly, I think you have failed her if she has been there six months and the issue of her inappropriate dress sense has not been addressed and now it would appear she will appear before the panel with a blot on her copy book, particularly as the other intern had no problem understanding it.

If she wants the training contract she is going to have to come up with some worthwhile responses as to why she was not aware enough of her surroundings to modify the way she dresses.

Perhaps for future reference something could be said to interns on their first day during the 'Welcome to the Company' chat as to what is and what isn't appropriate wear for the office and if it is flouted then it is dealt with immediately not left to drift.

She may well be able to carry off the clothes she wears but nightclub wear is for a nightclub not an office and if she really can't differentiate between the two she is not as smart as she thinks she is.

ChangingTiming · 27/04/2015 22:28

OP you do sound believable to me.
Happens to me in another profession, wholy inappropriate and the males in charge did not want to say anything for fear of being accused of sexual harassment. So a meeting and emil had to go out to the trainees telling them what was appropriate, and then sent home the next day/to get changed when appeared. Trainees embarrassed but could not let them work like they were dressed

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 28/04/2015 00:59

You know, I'm getting cross with you as well - just bloody do it! I've seen that you've asked her for lunch tomorrow, but FFS you should have done this immediatelyit became apparent that there was a problem for her!

I'm seriously unimpressed with your mentor/management credentials for failing to address this issue out of sheer cowardice, it seems.

I really hope that you don't chicken out again tomorrow, just get on with it.

KoalaDownUnder · 28/04/2015 01:10

If she's been there 6 months and the decision is being made in one week, why bother. Too late now!

QuintShhhhhh · 28/04/2015 12:25

Thats gonna be a bloody awkward lunch!

Why dont you just call her into your office for a bit! Then she can escape to the loo to calm down with dignity after all is said, rather than sit there with you and toss her salad/pasta around with burning cheeks and embarrassment gnawing at her stomach!

QuintShhhhhh · 28/04/2015 12:25

Head bang on desk.

I see you are asking her to your OFFICE for launch, not out to eat. Fair enough.