AIBU to not want strange men sleeping next to me post operative?

[bracingair]

I am due to have a c-section in UCLH and I was chatting to one of the midwives. She said post natal you are in a 4 bedded bay. Partners can sleep over, and they don't like the curtains closed so they can keep an eye on u. This is not my first so very likely DH will not stay overnight.

I think it is wonderful that women can have their partners over if they want, but I do not want someone else's partner right by me! I know resources are stretched but I think it is putting me in a position I am very uncomfortable with. AIBU and if not, what can I do about this?

boyscout you are being obtuse. Male doctors, porters etc are vetted, the other women are there because they have just given birth and are the patients, along with their babies.

1 in 4 women will suffer domestic violence in their lifetime - a very common time for this to start is during her pregnancy.

I would like to repeat a list from the other thread by a poster, of experiences by her clients, when partners were allowed to stay overnight:

• " I have just had a discussion with a co worker, between the two of us and just off the top of our heads we could think of over 200 women who have been clients of ours over the last few years (3/4)who have had at least one of the following apply on a post natal ward.

1. Sexually assaulted by a partner
2. Physically assaulted by partner
3. Turfed out of the bed so partner can sleep(this happened to me as well)
4. Meal taken by partner

5.made to lie to HCP to be discharged (some clients have died because of this)

1. Wanted to disclose abuse but couldn't
2. Wanted to enlist help to flee abuse at time of discharge but couldn't (a huge amount)
3. Couldn't obtain medical support needed due to fear
4. Asked for HCP assistance in sending partner home with no success

10. Threatened and verbally abused and ridiculed by partner for asking for midwife support. 11. Partner staying to check patient did not let on she spoke English 12. Partner staying to check patient did not show genitals or breasts to a HCP 13. Partner verbally abusing and threatening another patient because his/her sleep was disrupted (the his/her as its been something disclosed to us by same sex couples as well) 14. Partner assaulting HCP

These incidents were an issue outside of the open visiting times in hospitals that do not allow visitors to stay over so these are the ones who snuck in yet nobody was able to stop it,imagine how much harder it would be if they didn't have to sneak. I have intentionally left things off that involved partners who went home " *

What happens if you refuse to stay on a ward that allows partners to sleep overnight? Do you just have to discharge your self? I would have become hysterical if they tried to put me on a ward like that.

Honestly don't get it - partners snoozing quietly next to mothers would have made no difference to me at all

I would not like this.

I recently spent time in a gynae ward. One woman had her partner with her, I think she was miscarrying poor thing so I completely understand why he was there. However, when she was taken off to theatre, he stayed in the ward playing with his phone.

At that point, it was only me and him in the ward, with nurses in and out. So it was quiet.

At that time, the consultant came to see me, examined me (curtains were closed, but if the guy was listening he would have been well aware as he was a few feet away - let me illustrate this for you - the consultant said something like "Can you remove your knickers please, I'm going to examine your back passage by inserting a finger, ok?" ), consultant made observations verbally, (personal stuff so anyone could hear), and asked me some questions. At this point they were still trying to diagnose me, so I really needed to be frank and honest with the consultant about my symptoms. However, these are symptoms I had found difficult describing to my GP, and so knowing this guy was a few feet away, I clammed up and didn't tell the Dr everything he needed to know in as frank a way as I should have done.

I am not prudish at all, but the presence of a strange man in the same room as me while I'm being subjected to an internal examination and needing to answer very personal questions is NOT on at all . I'm going in again in a few weeks and if this happens again, I might have to pluck up the courage to ask for the nurses to move people out of the ward.

There was absolutely no need for that guy to hang around in the ward while his partner was taken off, he should have been asked to sit outside the ward.

I had to express every 2- 3 hours (prem baby who couldn't latch on) on postnatal ward for the 5 days I stayed in

Similar here, and wouldn't wish the torture of trying to hand-express drops of colostrum into a tiny syringe on anyone. But having a strange man three feet away from me on the other side of a curtain made no odds to me whatsoever.

I've said earlier up thread that I'm against this. But one thing that really bothers me is that for subsequent births fathers are likely to be less able to stay (looking after older children). I would hope that there was the option to be in a bay where other mothers were in the same boat and there was more support from the midwives, not just an expectation that the (absent) father would step in.

I can add a couple to Sabrina's list as well, and I only worked in maternity for 8 weeks.

• 16 year who wasn't allowed 'out' to attend antenatal appointments by boyfriend. Quite common, according to my 'mentor' midwife
• partner trying to attempt patient not to be given painkillers in labour
• husband refusing to allow his wife to be given a depo (contraceptive injection) following rubella immunisation.

St Thomas's have the same thing - partners can stay in a chair next to the mother's bed on 4 bed wards, although curtains are closed.
And once visiting hours have passed, they are considered there for the night and can't leave until morning.
The main reason for encouraging seems to be so the midwives don't do anything in the night to help. Changing, feeding, helping mums to the loo is all done by the dad if he is there...

I have no problem with partners staying if there are proper facilities for them. It's when there aren't and they are sharing a cubicle with the mother and sharing patients facilities.

Even the nicest, most loving, doting Husband and Father can be intrusive and annoying when they are not your Husband, or your child's Father. Yes, so can the other Mothers but they are the ones admitted to the wards.

In an ideal world we would all have access to private rooms, with private bathrooms and space to have someone we want to stay with us. Until that is standard then no I don't think partners should be there and I do think there should be strict visiting hours for husbands, children and grandparents only.

Waxy. yes it may come to be seen as a massive cheek to not have the partner there to do the caring.

for me its not so much that they are abusive/loud (altough some shocking and sad stuff has been posted by sabrinna)

its just they are NOT A FUCKING PATIENT! thats why visitor times apply

male/female- everyone deserves dignity and privacy whilst recovering

my Dad was in hospital and I hope I applied the same respectful attitude to the men is his ward as I would expect to have received myself when recovering from womb surgery

a classic example is when people waddle off post surgery to have their first shower, or their first shit

why are post natal women the ONLY ones expected to do this with an audience pray tell me?

fucking fuming actually

treaclesoda has it spot on.

Sabrina that is so horrific and so sad and just reminded me of something.

When I had a gel pessary to get things moving with my DS1, I got a bit panicky and started crying and tensed up. The midwife was lovely but she was about 7ft tall and had huge hands! She gave me some gas and air to relax me to do what she needed to do. Afterwards, she came in, sat next to me and asked if I wanted to talk about anything, did I have anything I needed to tell her, or any worries. Clearly I now see what she was getting at.

I'm very grateful I have a lovely DH and no, I didn't have anything to disclose, I was just nervous and had never done all that childbirth stuff before. But its actually upset me that in another circumstance, another woman could have had the opportunity to disclose something, but didn't because her partner was there.

Also, when visiting hours are not controlled and partners are allowed to stay, there are no checks or medical notes on any of these partners. At least when the mother is in, they will have access to her notes, if she has issues that could create problems on the ward, but random blokes that we have no idea who they are, within inches of you, at your most vulnerable.

Another half-baked idea. Childbirth is not a circus show. We need to go back to mums and babies

Having just had a crash section under GA, I was incredibly relieved to have my DH stay with me. If he hadn't been there, I'm not sure how I'd have managed. He helped me in and out of bed, to and from the toilet/shower, change into fresh clothes, cleaned up blood etc etc. He also did almost everything for the baby in the first couple of days as I was in so much pain. I wondered how others without a partner would manage as the staff were so busy that they were rarely seen! Luckily I had a private room as the thought of other people witnessing those dreadful first few hours is awful.

It's a tricky one. Post c-section I was in no position for DP to be sent home. It was a nightmare and there were just not enough staff to help me.

There should at least be separate bays/toilets/ showers for those that don't want partners around outside of visiting times.

If other patients on a ward were going on about how they wanted their partners to be able to stay overnight and how it was wrong they couldn't, I would have just agreed. I couldn't have been bothered with a disagreement when in hospital.

This is the crux of the problem with allowing men on the ward and why I DO have sympathy with the OP.

Women don't feel strong enough to challenge certain things during their pregnancy or straight after birth. This is why things need to be presented as a choice rather than a fait accompli.

It seems from the OP's post that there was never any discussion about how she felt and if men are going to be allowed to stay this is an important thing.

It seems from other posts that UCLH that there ARE bays with separate policies and not all do have men staying on them, which is interesting.

FWIW though, please do not dismiss some women who do want partners to stay as having no sympathy for women with histories of abuse or rape. For some things will be precisely why they want someone with them. For others they perceive the 'threat' to come from HCP themselves, perhaps because of poor care or disregard for consent in the past for intimate examinations. Which is why extra midwives on the ward wouldn't necessarily be the appropriate solution for them.

After stewing on this thread overnight I find myself still very angry at some attitudes here with regard to anxiety and being completely dismissive of it. Had the thread been about post-natal depression, attitudes of 'just suck it up and get on with it' would have been jumped on. Yet anxiety is not respected in the same way. That is ignorance of mental health.

In my case, no amount of counselling would have helped me 'just get over' things. I NEEDED DH to be there as in part it was therapeutic in helping me deal with my anxiety and restore trust in the midwives/doctors. I do think my behaviour would have been very different and I would have suffered if I had been on a ward on my own.

As I said before, I think the real problem is simply that maternity units in the UK just aren't fit for purpose and don't cater for the needs of all women and instead just process them as cattle without individual differing needs. And I don't think women help with this as there is a culture of telling other to suck it up or playing the martyr saying we have to accept this because of the bullshit money argument. And its not about money, its about political will and public pressure. The more women accept the status quo regardless of how awful they find it, the less pressure they put on government to make those changes.

I did tell my DH in conversation that if I was on a ward, he couldn't stay (that was before I had DD) as I felt it may make others uncomfortable. He was keen to stay, particularly if other partners were too, as he knew that would make me feel uncomfortable.

A partner isn't going to just snooze quietly though are they? Bear in mind that it is generally first time mothers who can take advantage of this. All those discussions in the middle of the night about whether the nappy needs changing, is she crying because she is hungry. All in a loud whisper. All those extra loo trips and coughs and snores. Extra people moving about the ward. And that is just the effect of the super considerate partners.

I get the disclosure point, but between the hours of 10pm-8am I found the skeleton staff barely had enough time to say hello let alone spend the time needed for an abused mother to disclose.

I can also see that the same skeleton staff can't very well police what is happening on each ward, so that could pose a problem with men staying overnight.

BoyScout the male HCPs will have been CRB checked. Partners, male or female, won't have been. That's the great big fuckoff difference between the two groups. You're unlikely to get a job as a midwife or even a porter if you've got previous for GBH with intent. But you could wander right onto a postnatal ward if your partner was there, without anyone even having the foggiest.

I had a traumatic birth and an epidural but I really would have crawled out of the hospital at 3am if they took me to a ward that allowed men over night.
This thread is really worrying.

Yanbu. I had my partner stay overnight but we were in a private room (well actually it had two beds but nobody in the other bed). I thought this was standard, I'd have hated to be on a busy ward after I'd just given birth.

It's telling that someone on this thread had a great experience at the same hospital as me a few months later. It shows it depends who the partners are: some will be lovely and respectful, some won't. In 8 days I saw the full range.

And for those saying just discharge yourself, you can't really during a blood transfusion and when connected to things. I was also told if I discharged myself with my premature baby (who was fine at this stage and on the ward with me) that children's services would be called. I was too scared after that so stuck it out.

My maternity hospital didn't allow fathers in overnight. I was grateful that they bent the rules when my DC was taken unexpectedly away for surgery at 2am when he was a day old. They allowed DH in to sit with me all night in the lounge area, though not the actual ward, which seems a fair compromise. (They even brought him breakfast.)

I was less impressed while being induced. They told me I was ready to go through to the labour ward at 4am, and they were just waiting for a bed. Knowing how long that might take, I got my DH to come in for 8am. But they still didn't have a bed for me, and wouldn't let him through to the pre-labour ward to see me until after 9am. I was in pain, and no one really believed I was having contractions. I did really need him at that point.

So I can see the other side of the argument, though ultimately, I think the need for privacy trumps other points. I think ideally, hospitals should have hostel type accommodation available, so dads could be close at hand, but patients would still have their privacy. When I was discharged over a week before my baby was, I was shocked that nothing like that existed for me - particularly when I was needing support with expressing and lived an hours drive away from the hospital.

Yanbu. In my local maternity unit everybody has a private ensuite room throughout their stay and fathers are encouraged to stay over, this should be standard everywhere.

Bakewell - you're quite correct and I'm not advocating that family members should be encouraged to stay to prop up over stretched medical staff, however, clearly when I was there I needed more support than the staff were able to give overnight and my DH could have done that, for me. After I buzzed for someone to come and pass me a crying DD as I was in pain from a major operation earlier that day and couldn't lift her confidently, I was told "you should really be doing this yourself" I felt so awkward buzzing and didn't drink for a couple of hours after that as I couldn't reach my water where the midwife had left it.

I didn't think of the other reasons why it may not be appropriate for birthing partners to stay over but now do appreciate them from reading this thread.

I just think the whole postnatal experience needs an overhaul as it is clearly not working.

furry I was given the same type of "support" - it's poor.