To think a teacher can not successfully differentiate for mixed ability class where there is a spread of children on the p scales and children who are top end of level 6

[ReallyTired]

Ie. Class of 30 children, year 5 and no ta full time support. I can't see how it is humanly possible for a teacher to teach such a wide range of ability without help. Crazy.

Do the level 6 kids get taken into extension classes with the year 6 kids?

Try 36, with 4 classed as needing statementing and 1 classed as probably really needing SLD school. My first year of teaching. And a Head who didnt want to know as we got extra for the SLD child. he didnt tell me about so i ended up buying early learning centre stuff for the SLD child out of my own pocket as he couldnt hold a normal pencil. My Head spent it on mugs with the school's name on.

It is possible, if you want to spend all your time preparing resources. Then get home and just collapse on the sofa because you're so exhausted from juggling all the children's needs all day!

He's it is crazy but sadly it is the norm. And all the while we are beaten with a stick by ofsted and SLT told we aren't doing enough whilst having parents blaming us for little Jimmy losing his lunchbox/pencil case/jumper etc.
It's actually refreshing the hear someone realising how bloody hard this job is.

Does no full time TA mean there is some TA support or none at all? It depends on the teacher and school. A good teacher would be able to plan for a wide range of abilities. It takes time and organisation, and it's hard work, but it is possible, especially with some TA hours.

There is some ta support, but it's certainly not full time.

Magic, maybe it's possible, it does result in teachers being burnt out and wanting to leave the profession?

That's awful. My school is very well resourced and I am so bloody grateful for it. You must be going nuts.

It nearly killed me.

Proper, detailed, meaningful differentiation meant planning 7 different groups for every single activity. It might as well have been 7 different lessons.

I left.

'A good teacher would be able to plan for a wide range of abilities. It takes time and organisation, and it's hard work, but it is possible, especially with some TA hours.'

Hmm, parent, SLT or OFSTED inspector. Which are you, Magic? Or all of them? You can plan, but it's the level of independent work required from the children, without enough time to give them the proper input that's one of the many problems with that statement.
I've seen it done well in a number of very small schools, some of which have three classes covering 7 years all together. There's a lot of setting and swapping that has to happen.

I am only a parent. I am not the teacher. Thankfully it's not my daughter's class. I like the particular teacher.

Yanbu-it's the reason we're really happy ds2 goes to a MLD school where he has a proper chance to learn. There's too much shoehorning in of children with additional needs into ms who'd be better served by specialist provision. They call it inclusion, I call it cheaper.

A child working at p levels in year 6 should have 1-1 support.

I would question the schools use of resources if their was no support in the class.

For once, YANBU.

Why the hell aren't the kids on P scales being given TA support? A class with that sort of spread probably needs a TA, most of the time. DS2 is in a year 4 class like that. They have a full time class TA, plus he has his own 1:1, most of the time, since he's the one on P scales. He's not going to be doing a "differentiated" activity on division or fractions, when he's still only becoming secure with counting!

P levels are pre national curriculum levels right ? so nursery/reception level ( my son is in a s/n school for children with autism and or complex needs ) only just getting used to the terms does the child nst have a statement or a echp?

Of course it isn't possible, but as streaming and setting are regarded as socially divisive differentiation is deemed to be the answer.

Even with TA support, the class teacher is supposed to be responsible for the child's learning. The TA is not 'qualified' to do it.

In reality, lots of TAs do do the 'teaching' as I am on a lot of social media sites where they ask each other for ideas on what to do with the child they have been given with lots of problems and no instructions.

'A good teacher would be able to plan for a wide range of abilities. It takes time and organisation, and it's hard work, but it is possible, especially with some TA hours.'

Hmm, parent, SLT or OFSTED inspector. Which are you, Magic? Or all of them?

'Just' a teacher! I work 4 days a week. The 5th day keeps me sane (probably because I usually use it to catch up). I'm not saying it's easy, it's exhausting and time consuming. But it is what's expected these days.

Erm
Try the same at secondary with an even wider spread and certainly no ta

Yes, it's what's expected, but it doesn't mean that it's possible to meet all those needs equally well and in every lesson. Which is what you are judged on in an observation or OFSTED.
Or has the fad for every child learning something in every 15 minutes or so passed by now? Is it still an expectation and how do you manage it when even the input has to be differentiated to four levels for some classes?
It's madness.

YANBU.
not possible.
teachers are expected to be magicians these days.
i have had seen kids in some classes who quite honestly would be better off in special schools.

Without a TA and good SEN dept, very difficult.

I personally feel class sizes are the culprit here, though. Thirty kids of any ability = difficult.

Agree with the pp that this is par for the course at secondary level, though. And much harder!

And its why mainstream is failing many children with SN's!

As someone said ^up there, its not inclusion its just cheaper

Poor kids

And I am sorry but the teacher is an adult, if he/she cannot meet the needs of all the children in the class, he/she needs to be brave enough to say something!

hiding there are many parents desperately trying to get special school places for their children and having to go to tribunal after tribunal to get their voices heard!