To think a teacher can not successfully differentiate for mixed ability class where there is a spread of children on the p scales and children who are top end of level 6

[ReallyTired]

Ie. Class of 30 children, year 5 and no ta full time support. I can't see how it is humanly possible for a teacher to teach such a wide range of ability without help. Crazy.

letseat I am sorry but I still feel more sad for the children whose mental health and lives are being doomed to failure because no one stuck their neck out and said "Actually X child/children are having a really hard time and we are not doing anything to help!"

As starlight says parents are your best resource but hand on heart how often to you acknowledge that parents know their children best?

I am walking away from this thread now because I have my 3rd tribunal to prepare for but as I walk away I hope that maybe just one teacher on here tonight has read my words and starlights and taken them seriously!

I dont really care about your mortgage if I am honest! I do care about my childs mental health and well being!

Well, the health and well being of my own children depends on my ability to pay the mortgage.

You are very naive if you think that teachers don't care. Unfortunately they have very little power. I think you would be shocked if you had seen how teachers get forced out (quickly) if they don't toe the line..

Afterthought I haven't yet met a teacher who has loved to work with me, except for my Dad who was a teacher trainer and told me to get my child out of school to home educate as he knew the system was not going to work for him.

I just couldn't figure a way to be heard. I tried stepping back, stepping forward, being nice, thank-you notes, praise, presents at Christmas, complaining, pre-emptive writing of the IEP to save them work, Sending in home-made tools to use. Nothing ever worked.

Same old same old. Only the SALT (who was rubbish actually, as a SALT) listened and tried to work on difficulties in partnership. I never once had cause to complain about her despite fairly poor outcomes. She admitted she didn't know what to do from the outset so did her best and I tried to help.

I feel everyone's health and wellbeing is important. A stressed out teacher cannot meet the needs of his/her class. If you want happy and healthy children it needs to be made safe for teachers to admit they are struggling.

starlight, most parents of kids with SN are not as well informed as yourself. It would be great if they were. More often than not they are part of the problem not the solution. And often, if they are then they are very helpful, but they forget that their child is only one of 30 and not the ONLY or most important thing the teacher needs to focus on.

Well then, I'm sure you know that the children in the middle are the key group for league table SATS results. The high ability will get their level 4s but those in the middle are the ones that get all the coaching.

I did say I was only talking from my own experience, and I don't often work with a year group that does SATs. But allowing the high ability children to only get level 4s would not be seen as acceptable at the schools I have experience of, and as much coaching is given to children who could get level 6 as it is to children who could get level 4.

'Unfortunately they have very little power. I think you would be shocked if you had seen how teachers get forced out (quickly) if they don't toe the line..'

I am a school Governor and have learned that it is practically impossible to get rid of a teacher for incompetence or for failing children.

The have little power, but parents have a lot of power, which is systematically and deliberately stolen and hidden from them. That is why I don't understand why teachers don't use them as a resource and campaign with them, because what is good for their kids, is good for teachers.

If it were that easy, it'd be done.

Sometimes you are yelling until you are red in the face and no one listens.
Sometimes you have 29 other children, who are also equally important and one child can't take away from them.
Sometimes you don't dare say anything as it would be seen as a weakness and you'd be out of a job,
Sometimes you spend evening after evening for that one child.

There's no one answer.

Teachers care about the kids in their class. It is bloody difficult to cater for the needs of 30 individual children in a class. But you get told it's part of the job and handle it.

5 levels of differentiation.
Everyone making accelerated progress.
Teaching full time with a few hours PPA time.
Full accountability for progress.
Observations
Learning walks
Book scrutinies

etc etc

Oh - and 30 kids of all levels in the class.

Teacher dropout rate is very very high. Dropping out is better than burning out. Who pays? The children.

I'm sure there are ways of reducing this stress.

I am a school Governor and have learned that it is practically impossible to get rid of a teacher for incompetence or for failing children

It's easy. Put stress on them. Put them on capability. Monitor them. Tell them they're crap. Put more observations on them.

Not many get sacked for incompetence. Many many leave prior to that.

Parents struggle is only a fraction to do with their kids. Most of it is to do with an opaque system and unfulfilled promises and the desperate need to keep a good relationship with the people they hand their most loved ones to whilst trying to be patient as they watch their children deteriorate due to inaction.

Oh yes. Bullying is rife. You don't see the full picture as a governor- you think you do, but you really don't.

That's why many women pick high paid careers and don't give up work! So we can ensure our children go to very competitive academic private schools at age 5. It rocks and is really good if you have bright children.

It is very easy to get rid of teachers. I was one. One who was very passionate about advocating for the struggling children in my classes. It was made very difficult/impossible for me to return after maternity leave....

I doubt the governors knew any of it... And my pupils got excellent value added attainment whichever way you looked at it. I was still "got rid of"

'So no parent ever struggles with their child's ASN? It's all the teacher's fault?'

They appear to be your words, not mine.

Actually I should clarify. I have 3 children, and had a fantastic relationship with all teachers who have had my non-SEN children, plus the Head Teacher of a small private school who had almost NO training in SEN and was grateful for all I supplied, and even changed some of her provision according to my suggestions and boasted about it in her brochure, - despite it already being an Ofsted Outstanding provision. She couldn't believe the attitude of the teachers of the school to which we were moving to when she and I tried to supply and handover information about what was needed and what worked.

"My DS is Year 3 now and has just passed an audition and got into a vary prestigious choir. It's the only hour of his life he is able to get through without flapping, and probably one of the most flapping-inducing experiences since it causes both anxiety and excitement due to the pace or learning expected and the musical harmonies. But it's just an hour and he loves it. He also plays violin and is in an orchestra but though has an excellent ear, can't coordinate well for the bowing."

So he doesn't flap during choir but flaps more afterwards?
May I ask, what led him to violin? (Am violinist of sorts)

Thank god dd8 goes to a specialist Autistic school where she is doing absolutely fantastically, in a MS school, I dread to think. Yes it is all about money saving, and some schools wanting the money for themselves.

Exactly what I said Trouble

Unhealthily I can't remember really what led him to the violin. I guess it is because his teeth haven't come through for a wind instrument, needing one that he can carry about and get out in sessions in the future (and because I don't drive), not too noisy as we live very close to our neighbours. DH thought it would be a good idea, is probably the best reason I can give

He also played the piano/keyboard for a year and was very good at it but when he left school he had to stop as they were done there. We're trying to find the money for him to do it again.

Trouble is, he can't read music, and I doubt will do for a long time, because as soon as the tune is played through or modelled once, he knows it just by having heard it. That doesn't work well in the choir because he sings everyone else's parts in his gaps so we have to work on that a lot outside of choir.

Starlight

The thing is, who is it that told you the teacher is failing or incompetent? The head? The same head that observed them? What makes them incompetent? The results? The relationship with the class? I've seen too many good colleagues forced out. Yes, there are bad teachers, but it's not as black and white as it might appear.

How wonderful that you are teaching music though. I hope it is going well. Is your ds still as musical as he was?

It is my guilty pleasure. It has been very therapeutic for me. It has helped me "decompress".
As you may remember, DS2's needs were well met by his school. He sings in a small boys' choir and got a merit in his grade 2 piano but is not nimble fingered or well-coordinated so that holds him back on instruments. He is also very aware of what's cool/not cool so would describe his hobby as football and cubs.
I still feel that his musicality was pathological and am glad it has faded a bit.