to wish I could vote ukip loud and proud

[Mumof4worried]

I've nc for this, as I generally have to in life.

I'm voting ukip, I live in Peterborough where we have had massive immigration. The affects have been huge. Enlargement of EU distroyed dh building business overnight. The schools are close to bursting and have to do a school run to two different schools, had a 5 hour wait in a and e. Teenage son struggles to get part time farm work like I did when I was a teenager. House prices are out of control, god knows how any of mine will ever leave home.

I'm not saying all of these are 100% to do with uncontrolled immigration, but it has Made the problems so much worse.

I'm not racist, most of my friends are 2nd gen Asians or homophobic, my brother and his husband visit a lot.

I just want an oz type points immigration system. I don't care that lots are highly skilled, that is often very bad as it leads to a brain drain in other countries and my children will have to compete with the worlds most ambitious and motivated people.

I just want to be able to express these thoughts but I'm shamed into hiding them by the media.

And 'we're all right'. It doesn't take much.

I think Farage's petulance during and after the second leaders' debate didn't play at all well with lots of people. UKIP functions when it shuts down any argument with accusations of being elite, liberal or determined to brand UKIP racist. Engaging with factual arguments or being called on the unpleasantness of many of the public statements isn't really part of the tactic.

I wonder just how many UKIP voters would real in horror if you pointed out that specialist mental health treatment for pregnant women includes stopping putting obstacles in the way of maternal request ELCS. Hmmm....

do you mean they will help women to get an elc or not, not clear.

I am all for stopping obstacles for women to get elc.

I hope everyone who is complaining or considering voting UKIP really does consider why they are too ashamed to publically admit it

blatantly obv from this very thread, being viciously attacked, called swivel eyed racist and so on, thick, daily mail reader, no other life experience or political knowledge....and so on.

Ukip as far as I can see exist only to get us out of Europe and to put pressure on the other parties to do this, which is pretty much what they are achieving.

That's the aim and their sole existence.

Red, congratulations! I hope you got the birth you wanted

The way people have reacted to UKIP on this thread, shows me that people DO take UKIP seriously and DO see them as a serious contender and possibly a threat.
If UKIP weren't a threat, they wouldn't generate so much reaction.

Actually I think people are quite happy to argue a thread up to 1000 posts and arge vehemently on subjects such as 'is ice cream or custard better with apple crumble?' and 'should you wear shoes inside?'. A long thread is not necessarily a sign that the participants take the subject seriously.

Ukip as far as I can see exist only to get us out of Europe and to put pressure on the other parties to do this, which is pretty much what they are achieving.

That was the aim of the founder (who apparently isn't on friendly terms with Farage). However, while there might be an intelligent argument for leaving UKIP it hasn't been made by Farage, and there is no immediate liklihood that the UK will leave the EU.

I'm not sure about ukip, but, I think racism and xenophobia are serious issues.

Merry I presume that's a typo and you meant 'for leaving the EU'. I can think of lots of intelligent reasons to leave UKIP!

RosesareSublime the majority of maternal requests done on the NHS are for mental health reasons or to protect someone's mental health. NICE have recognised its impossible to decide who has a 'legitimate' mental health reason and said that to actively refuse to do an ELCS could be psychologically damaging in its own right. I am aware that there are some women who want ELCS but are refused who disengage with antenatal care and may even attempt to freebirth. Its not dissimilar in logic to some of the medical reasons for allowing abortion.

The problem is the popular misconception is that women like to have ELCS for the sheer hell of it, and this is costing the NHS money because they are too weak/lazy. So there is a sizeable number of people who wants them banned and hospitals have introduced bans themselves in direct contradiction to the NICE guidance.

My point is that most Kippers are more likely to be in this camp especially if they are already against the right to bodily autonomy.

Hope that clarifies.

Yes, I meant EU! farage has demonstrated some intelligent reasons for leaving UKIP

goldy the things I listed are hardly secret. A quick Google and you can find them yourself. even videos of farage and his chums saying these things.

However when I'm not posting from my phone I'll send you a big loads of links

what worries me is that you are going to vote for a party when you clearly have no understanding of what they stand for. You don't appear to believe me on things like their stance on maternity pay and sex discrimination in the workplace yet these are well documented. how can you not know this?

There is nothing in the world so dangerous as wilful ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

95% of the nations wealth goes to 1% of the population, and they aren’t investing it nor are they paying their share of taxes. Thats why life’s getting worse for the majority of us OP.

Despite corporate profits going through the roof, and the banks and financial institutions being richer than ever, wages have pretty much stagnated or else been declining for a generation now. But that's all the fault of immigrants, right? While you’re at it, why don’t you blame people who are having babies? Or the rich that are getting ridiculously richer? The immigrants I’ve met are usually either doing shitty work for minimum wage or important roles like Doctors and Nurse as so many ‘Indigenous’ British people can’t afford to study. Please don’t believe all the shit Farage comes out with, or you read in the tabloids OP. Remember that a vast amount more is stolen by wealthy tax frauds like our own Royal family, (who’ve been tax dodging and accumulating wealth for generations) than Immigrants ever could take.

The London School of Economics did a study in 2013 which concluded that immigrants from Europe made a net contribution of £22.1 billion to the UK economy between 2001 and 2011. The Office for Budget Responsibility agree that the role immigration to the UK has played in helping to assist the economic recovery. But you won't see that splashed all over the Daily Mail. As it's always preferable to have people look sideways at each other and blame 'them over there'. Where we really need to look is UP, for those that are really to blame for the decline in our living standards.

So vote UKIP all you like. But remember - the arguments they make were also used against women when they first entered the labour market. They too were supposedly driving down wages.

In reality, immigrants create jobs because people need to be employed in order to make, sell and distribute the things they want to buy. The fact is that Britain is a nation of immigrants and if you 'shipped them all home and closed the door the poor would continue to be poor and the rich would continue to be rich. Which scapegoats would you and Nige blame then? The disabled?

Very well articulated sour totally agree

However, while there might be an intelligent argument for leaving the EU it hasn't been made by Farage, and there is no immediate liklihood that the UK will leave the EU.

Yes. He is nicely milking the EU Parliament cow while advocating keeping EU nationals out.

Farage is in no way stupid.

I personally think the UKIP manifesto is something of a work of genius. That's not saying I think its good of ideas. I think its full of the most popularist policies it could think of to attract disenfranchised and disillusioned voters, without any regard for whether what they are remotely achievable in their goal or remotely workable in practice. Its merely repeating stuff back to people that they want to hear. That's not good politics. Its good marketing. They are in touch with certain sections of the public, arguably better than the main parties for this reason (and this is what makes them dangerous) but their wider appeal is extremely limited.

However politicians should not just be doing what the public want even with their mandate to serve the people. They have to serve the people's interests. They therefore also have a certain responsibility to be the parent who doesn't just give sweets and toys to their eldest child because they have other children, they can't afford all the toys and too many sweets rot your teeth.

And that's the bit that UKIP misses. Arguably all the other parties don't do the balancing of the parental stuff well enough either and have different strengths and weaknesses but on the whole they have got the balance better than UKIP which neglects all three pitfalls.

Fab post sour and one that I would like any kippers on here to respond to please!

Absolutely sour.

The full sentence was
If you stopped immigration right now, or kicked the immigrants now, do you really think any of those would suddenly get better?

Even if you decide that it's not a good thing to kick out the immigrants that you (UKIP voters) are complaining that are making all the services so bad and ruining the economy and ruining Britishness...

If you stopped immigration right now, do you really think the economy, the NHS, education, etc would get better?

Or rather, the government would continue invest the bare minimum, and improve slightly just in time for each election?

Can't be bothered/ don't have time to read 30 pages on UKIP - sorry
Custard or ice-cream on apple crumble maybe!

But OP - yes, be loud and proud if you like. The benefits of living in a democracy! As someone said hang out the bunting!

As it happens I live in your home town and am supporting one of the smaller parties too. In fact I'm going further and standing for them in the local elections. I've put up a poster and doing some door-to-door canvassing too.

But, even though this could easily out me, I'm not name-changing for this post.

Because I'm proud to be supporting the Green Party

BTW (may out me further) In response to Nigel Farage's recent comments about Peterborough - as I live in a quiet cul-de-sac my DC have enjoyed the opportunity to play out with neighbouring children from a wide variety of cultural and social backgrounds. I'm so glad we moved here it has been great!

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05p6srf/the-glasgow-girls-stories

Imagine your children, after a life of fear, war, poverty, intimidation, violence, finally have a home, finally safe, treated like criminals, dragged from their beds, inprisoned. Because of where they were born. Asylum seekers and immigrants are human beings like your children are, coming from places where a five hour wait in a and e is a good thing. You should be ashamed.

The right don't need to worry about war, poverty and violence on refugees, because they've drowned them in the Med, first. Theresa May is out there pushing the swimming ones back under.

Exactly right, sourdrawers

My (immigrant) DH has contributed far more to the UK economy in the last 20 years than degenerate freeloading (British) me, what with my time as a SAHM and even now my wage doesn't even attract income tax, it's so patheticically small.

Well said.

Remember that a vast amount more is stolen by wealthy tax frauds like our own Royal family, (who’ve been tax dodging and accumulating wealth for generations) than Immigrants ever could take.

Now did this tax dodging start when they immigrated from France or Germany or Greece?

First Northern Germany, then Norway then a bit later Normandy. As far as anyone knows.

Asylum seekers and immigrants are human beings like your children are

And how many pass through safe countries before claiming asylum in the UK? Anyone travelling from a safe country and claiming asylum here should be deported on the spot.

Deported to where rich?