to wish I could vote ukip loud and proud

[Mumof4worried]

I've nc for this, as I generally have to in life.

I'm voting ukip, I live in Peterborough where we have had massive immigration. The affects have been huge. Enlargement of EU distroyed dh building business overnight. The schools are close to bursting and have to do a school run to two different schools, had a 5 hour wait in a and e. Teenage son struggles to get part time farm work like I did when I was a teenager. House prices are out of control, god knows how any of mine will ever leave home.

I'm not saying all of these are 100% to do with uncontrolled immigration, but it has Made the problems so much worse.

I'm not racist, most of my friends are 2nd gen Asians or homophobic, my brother and his husband visit a lot.

I just want an oz type points immigration system. I don't care that lots are highly skilled, that is often very bad as it leads to a brain drain in other countries and my children will have to compete with the worlds most ambitious and motivated people.

I just want to be able to express these thoughts but I'm shamed into hiding them by the media.

Two UKIP counsillors in London in the past month have independently blamed " the bottle necks on the cycling infrastructure (bike lanes) in London on the incidence of too much immigration".

Whether or not anybody on this thread feels able to define 'Britishness', if somebody claims to have made projections showing when "European host cultures are predicted to become minorities" you do actually need to explain how 'European host culture' has been defined in these studies.

Otherwise the only conclusions we can draw are that those 'projections' are a load if codswallop or you made them up.

Lets face it, Nigel Farage is never going to become prime minister BUT if he manages to shake up the other parties into doing something about the matters that concern most of the British public he is worth a vote.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction in terms, MoreShabby? If only Farage is able to deal with "matters that concern most of the British public", surely he will become Prime Minister?

Or could it be that this yet another example of UKIP supporters claiming that the majority of the population agrees with them whilst being unable to point to any evidence for that fact, and being unable to account for the fact that only 12% of the population at most actually votes UKIP?

As someone upthread said, your country of birth is down to pure dumb luck, and no, not everyone becomes wealthy and successful by hardwork. I like this quote from George Monbiot

'If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.'

If you're indigenous, and yes I damn well will use that word, your culture has been so devalued and abused in the name of promoting others that you don't know if you want to belong to it.

This type of thing is a frequent pronouncement from the likes of the Mail and UKIP, and one I don't understand. For instance, today is St George's Day. There has been a specific effort to ring church bells around the country to celebrate it, and I am seeing St George's flags freely on display all over the place. Shortly we will have the BBC proms, and on the Last Night people will go ape waving St George's and union flags and will sing "Land of Hope and Glory" and the National Anthem with massive enthusiasm. We've just had various quintessentially English sporting events such as the Boat Race and the Grand National, shown on national TV. The established church is the Church of England, whose services are broadcast every week by the British Broadcasting Company - which also televises C of E services at Easter and Christmas as well as events like Royal weddings, funerals and coronations. We have a whole subsidised theatre company dedicated to the greatest British playwright and his works are also performed all over the country. And so on and so on.

How does all of that demonstrate that my culture has been devalued and abused and that people don't know if they want to belong to it?

Thing is, Labour admitted they made a massive mistake regarding immigration, they're still admitting it now ! Unchecked immigration/ migration, what ever you want to call it, has caused problems, if it hadn't no one would be supporting UKIP - it really is that simple.

n one hand people are complaining about MH funding being reduced (for example), and on the other are fighting for the right of anyone to come here & use NHS resources.

Now in my head I see a large pot of money & when someone takes some out, there is less left.

As someone who puts money into that pot I don't think it's unreasonable that I, and my friends and family who also put money into that pot, get first dibs at spending the cash rather than someone who has been paying into a different pot or no pot at all.

I put more in than I need to take out and I really don't mind if someone from this country that can't put in any, or as much, needs to take money out too - that's as socialist as I'll get I'm afraid.

And yes - it's all down to Luck & being born here, but that's the way the cookie crumbles....

A lot of common sense spoken above. Look after your own citizens really well first, then^ go about helping others.

LikeICan, they're saying that to get votes. Do you understand how politics works?

Have they banned Morris dancing?

But isn't Morris dancing just 'moorish dancing', another recent North African/Spanish import? I mean did they have Morris dancers in the 12th century when brave old richard the lionheart, (who apparently could speak the odd word of English) was off on the crusades? No!

Probably started by some self hating 15th century liberals who were all 'ooh let's be foreign' and didn't care about indigenous culture!

Of course you'd still be voting UKIP.

The economy would still have been in a shit state of affairs, regardless of immigration.

NHS waiting times would still be long, regardless of immigration.

Schools in some areas would still be oversubscribed, regardless of immigration.

But you'd still vote UKIP because you'd still allow yourself to believe immigration had caused those issues.

How do I know?

Because immirgration hasn't caused those issues. But you believe it has so you'll vote UKIP. It wouldn't matter if we'd had 200 or 200,000 immigrants. You'd still blame them and you'd still vote UKIP

Because that is what you are doing now

I have just read the whole of ukips manifesto and yes they get my vote too

Me too. People like to latch on to the immigration issue and and try their best to use it as a stick to beat UKIP supporters with.
But it's not working.

People aren't as gullible to propaganda as they used to be.

on the other are fighting for the right of anyone to come here & use NHS resources.

I think it's more fighting for people's right to come here, pay taxes and work in the NHS.

Thing is, Labour admitted they made a massive mistake regarding immigration, they're still admitting it now ! Unchecked immigration/ migration, what ever you want to call it, has caused problems, if it hadn't no one would be supporting UKIP - it really is that simple.

Absolutely spot on.

Oh goldy you're back! So are you going to vote Lib Dem for the biggest commitment on MH?

Me too. People like to latch on to the immigration issue and and try their best to use it as a stick to beat UKIP supporters with.
But it's not working.

If you could explain which bits of the manifesto appeal to you, why you think they will work and perhaps link to some independent research or evidence to support your argument, you would have a better chance of persuading other people that you are making an informed, intelligent decision.

Do you think the Jews in Germany caused hyper-inflation, the loss of the first world war, and the privations of the treaty of Versaille?

Because not many people did when Hitler was spouting that stuff in 1922.

But when he started spouting it in 1929, when the economy was in a shit state of affairs, lots of people did start to believe it. And they voted for him.

It wasn't true either time. But when people are feeling the pinch ecomonically they look for someone to blame. In that instance the Jews.

In this instance the immigrants.

The economy would still have been in a shit state of affairs, regardless of immigration.

Your right, it was dismal back in the middle of the long labour term. All of it, dire.

Then the CC hit and what did Labour think to do?

It decided to have open door immigration to rub the rights noses in it - apparently.

Whose noses are being rubbed in it now? Young people leaving school with low skills and masses of competition from EU with low skills, competition over housing. People with primary age children who cannot get places.

Of course immigration as it became under the last Labour Gov, didn't cause these issues but for goodness sake, it has not helped them and made them significantly worse.

I have just read the whole of ukips manifesto and yes they get my vote too

I wonder if you, and others, have read other manifestos as well and compared them without prejudice.

Thus proving to you that it's not only UKIP who are prepared to talk about immigration

They don't seem to be prepared to talk about anything else!

The reason they keep talking about it, is because every time UKIP are interviewed, the interviewers hsitstirrers keep asking them about it

Thus proving to you that it's not only UKIP who are prepared to talk about immigration They don't seem to be prepared to talk about anything else!

The reason they keep talking about it, is because every time UKIP are interviewed on TV, the interviewers hsitstirrers keep asking them about immigration

...and, speaking of St. George: His mother was from where? His father from...where?!

Catgirl the two instances are not in the least comparable.

We were in a crisis under the last Labour Government who then allowed a torrent of peoples to come here like we have never seen before.

Its been unprecedented.

Even the BBC has admitted it under reported its affects at the time.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11293405/John-Humphrys-Sheltered-liberal-BBC-staff-did-not-interrogate-immigration-for-fear-of-appearing-racist.html

Great article by John Humphries, The BBC has been staffed with too many 'Oxbridge liberal males' making it 'relentlessly middle class' and unwilling to confront immigration, the broadcaster John Humphrys says

A bit like MN ^

People seem to forget that the current economic crisis was mainly caused by people taking and banks granting mortgages that could not be afforded. People spending too much (as well as governments) on credit.
By bankers selling crap grade debt as gold grade.

Not immigration anywhere.

FE males of course