to wish I could vote ukip loud and proud

[Mumof4worried]

I've nc for this, as I generally have to in life.

I'm voting ukip, I live in Peterborough where we have had massive immigration. The affects have been huge. Enlargement of EU distroyed dh building business overnight. The schools are close to bursting and have to do a school run to two different schools, had a 5 hour wait in a and e. Teenage son struggles to get part time farm work like I did when I was a teenager. House prices are out of control, god knows how any of mine will ever leave home.

I'm not saying all of these are 100% to do with uncontrolled immigration, but it has Made the problems so much worse.

I'm not racist, most of my friends are 2nd gen Asians or homophobic, my brother and his husband visit a lot.

I just want an oz type points immigration system. I don't care that lots are highly skilled, that is often very bad as it leads to a brain drain in other countries and my children will have to compete with the worlds most ambitious and motivated people.

I just want to be able to express these thoughts but I'm shamed into hiding them by the media.

FFS, what IS British self??? Why will no one answer the question?

Scatter please define who the "indigenous" British are. Please? Pretty please? Just have a go? A little try?

But bux, what exactly does it mean when people talk about 'a British sense of self'? When posters say that we are losing the British way of life, what exactly do they mean? What are they/we supposedly losing?

These are absolutely honest, genuine questions. I simply don't understand what people mean when they say this stuff. I'm not stupid but I genuinely don't understand what it is that we're supposed to be losing.

I'm British. My parents are British. Their parents, on both sides, were British. But I still don't get it. I wish someone would just explain exactly what it is they mean.

And I feel immense sorrow for our children and grandchildren who will have to navigate uncharted waters

Every single generation has to navigate uncharted waters everywhere. Human populations tend to be like that. Particularly in the modern world.
I don't think it's your children or grandchildren who are particularly afraid of it, but you (and the older generation).

You're in awe, your DH is in awe, Mrs D is amazing.... It just seemed a smidgen disproportionate to what she actually posted.

keepitsimple0

Sorry. I should also have read it all properly. :)

Bux that's nice, dear.

I'm a 50 something.

I grew up in Leeds where we - even then - had a large immigrant population. West Indian, Asian, Jewish, Polish to name but a few.

Goodness me, it was awful. Scarred me for life it did, mixing with all those non-British people.

Um...........AwesomeAlmonds

That doesn't even attempt to answer the question asked.

[consfused] [consfused]

We have open borders with Europe and whilst we are getting some very good people, we are also getting a lot of people who are not benefiting our society.

The same goes for the brits who go to live abroad, in the open border Europe, and elsewhere.
I'm not sure how retired brits are benefiting the south of Spain and Portugal, apart from driving property prices up.

So confused, I couldn't type.

that's not a 'way of life' or s 'culture' that's just an address

AwesomeAlmond

We have open borders with Europe and whilst we are getting some very good people, we are also getting a lot of people who are not benefitting our society

Who are these people and in what way are they not benefitting our society? How many of them are there? How many 'good' people are there?

Do you even know?

Jesus. So literally no one has a sensible answer to the question 'what is a British way of life'.

Bit pointless in getting so worked up over the 'loss' of something you can't even define!!

Awesome, I assume you were trying to answer the question "What makes a person British?". Which wasn't the question asked.

Although, even then I am a bit confused. If you were born here but haven't sent off for your passport, are you still British?

Hang on! If you lose you passport, do you lose your 'British way of life' as well?

So it's about xenophobia then, Almonds?

FFS, what IS British self??? Why will no one answer the question?

National identities and cultures are rather large and nebulous things to attempt to summarise in MN posts, no?

You could start with the collected speeches of Churchill - possibly a bit obvious. The Mass Observation diaries are an excellent source of what 'ordinary' people thought WW2 was all in aid of and includes reflections on Britishness. Large parts of 20th century literature, social history and diarists, come to that. The evolution is a fascinating thing.

So to is this modern discomfiture with it. The St Georges day thread was peculiar too.

I just find this whole denial that Britishness exists so odd.

I detest UKIP but have a sense of Britishness as a concept. Should I not be able to think both things simulatneously?

AwesomeAlmonds

From the Labour Party manifesto:

We will strengthen our borders and social integration to ensure migrants can play their part in British society

We will enforce fair rules so those who come here won’t be able to claim benefits for at least two years, and we will stop child benefit being sent to families living abroad.
We will make it illegal for employers to undercut wages by exploiting workers.
We will ban recruitment agencies from hiring only from overseas, and, where there is evidence of abuse, we will crack down on rogue agencies by extending the remit of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority.
We will strengthen our borders, recruiting an additional 1,000 border staff paid for by a small charge on non-visa visitors to the UK.
We will introduce full exit checks, which will enable us to count people in and out of the country.
We will require people working in public-facing roles in public services to speak English.
We will bring in stronger controls to prevent those who have committed serious crimes coming to Britain and to deport those who commit crimes while they are here.
We will tighten the system for short-term student visitor visas to prevent abuse, while welcoming university students who bring billions of pounds into Britain.
We will keep the cap on workers from outside the EU.
We will end the indefinite detention of people in the asylum and immigration system, ending detention entirely for pregnant women and those who have been the victims of sexual abuse or trafficking.
We will ensure Britain continues its proud history of providing refuge for those fleeing persecution by upholding our international obligations, including working with the UN to support vulnerable refugees from Syria.

I think it does rather sound like they are tackling the 'issue'.

bux interesting that you bring WWs into this debate.

No I didn't. Scatters did.

I was referencing his post upthread.

Winston Chuchill's collected speeches define Britishness???

Fuck me.

You know, his mother was an immigrant?