to wish I could vote ukip loud and proud

[Mumof4worried]

I've nc for this, as I generally have to in life.

I'm voting ukip, I live in Peterborough where we have had massive immigration. The affects have been huge. Enlargement of EU distroyed dh building business overnight. The schools are close to bursting and have to do a school run to two different schools, had a 5 hour wait in a and e. Teenage son struggles to get part time farm work like I did when I was a teenager. House prices are out of control, god knows how any of mine will ever leave home.

I'm not saying all of these are 100% to do with uncontrolled immigration, but it has Made the problems so much worse.

I'm not racist, most of my friends are 2nd gen Asians or homophobic, my brother and his husband visit a lot.

I just want an oz type points immigration system. I don't care that lots are highly skilled, that is often very bad as it leads to a brain drain in other countries and my children will have to compete with the worlds most ambitious and motivated people.

I just want to be able to express these thoughts but I'm shamed into hiding them by the media.

Pyjamas I think it went before that sad day. As much as I admire Tony Benn I do think he was at the forefront of Labour's move from representing what the working people wanted to what educated people thought the working people should want.

DameCatriona what would the logic be behind being anti-EU and pro-immigration?

I can see anti-immigration/pro-social justice if immigration depressed wage levels;
I can see the sense of pro-immigration/pro-social justice if immigration increases tax take;
I can see pro-EU/pro social justice where EU action serves to even out the gap between rich and poor regions;
And my personal view - pro-EU/pro-immigration/pro social justice where we can take in the best workers in Britain's specialty areas, excel in those, and hence increase tax take.

However, I can't see how anti-EU fits with pro-immigration and pro social justice? But every day is a school day on MN...

You have to change EU for EEC Boulevard. The belief was that free trade with Europe would damage our manufacturing industry but acknowledging the need for some immigration to be doctors and nurses in the NHS, to do other jobs, to keep things running.
Immigration into a prosperous high employment country was a great thing. When the EU gives a right to move for jobs and lets non British companies own basic infrastructure sending jobs to wherever they're cheapest, the non-competitive workers lose out. Thatcherism and privatisation perversely played into that and the jobs went to the lowest paid people. Labour wanted to protect the jobs.
Would protectionism have worked? Who knows? If Labour had listened to reason (Barbara Castle?) and agreed a plan with the unions then the disastrous days of the 70s could have been averted and industry protected. Could we have stayed in a free trade arrangement without going into the EU? Don't know.

I just want an oz type points immigration system. I don't care that lots are highly skilled, that is often very bad as it leads to a brain drain in other countries and my children will have to compete with the worlds most ambitious and motivated people.

Is this not a bit of a contradiction? Oz points type immigration means highly skilled by definition? So under this policy your children would definitely be competing with the brightest and best......

Fwiw I live in an area that has very low immigration. Still spent 5 hours+ in Casualty with baby ds the last time I went.

Yes Giddy that's a good point.

Northern Ireland generally has net emigration ie fewer people in the country at the end of the year than the start.

Yet it has the longest A&E waiting times in the UK.
And a huge waiting list for social housing.

Any of you UKIPpers want to explain that one to me?

It's fact.. the op speaks the truth, I'm out of here, Too many people in Ivory towers who have no bloody idea what is really happening in the uk.

Reading my last post back sounds a bit like a pro ukip thing. It isn't! If we had avoided outright confrontation with the unions and modernised them through cooperation then we could have had a successful model like Germany.

The only time I ever hear any mention of it being racist to say immigration is a problem, is from the people claiming "you can't say ......"followed by a rant.

I'm worried that ukip will get in where I live, this is just my experience but in my circle of family and friends, I couldn't tell you who plans to vote labour or Tory, but I can tell you many who will be voting ukip as they announce it and slip immigration into every discussion, none of them have read the policies, the town I live in doesn't have a large immigrant population, it doesn't even have a small one, but yet that's the factor that is swinging many votes here.

There's so much anger and hatred aimed towards immigrants in my town, I don't know who I'm voting for yet, but it won't be ukip. It gets tiring explaining why I don't want to though.

Giddy you are bringing in the question of the jobs moving elsewhere and the (ex) workers staying here, it's true that's something I left out; if you wanted to combat that you'd be moving to the extreme left maybe? Green? Occupy?

Don't think it's something UKIP has sought to address, they are pretty pro-big business for all the 'people's army' rhetoric.

immigration is just a red herring. it's poor planning. Other countries cope with more immigration just fine.

keepitsimple0

Like Spain and its 1 million unilingual Brits!

what would the logic be behind being anti-EU and pro-immigration?

Why does anti-immigration equal anti-EU?

Who said logic had to come into it? It's politics Boulevard

Closer European Union [the Schengen Agreement] would mean most immigrants being repatriated to the EU country they started out from.

Very hard to get to Britain from a non-EU country except by air.

More people = more economic activity, more growth, more productivity, more profits. Things you'd think a party like UKIP would be in favour.

Instead they are just selfish, and prejudiced. Like the party that spawned them. Like the party whose place they took as a protest vote

943,598 voted BNP in the 2009 Euro Elections

179,694 voted BNP in the 2014 Euro Elections

Who did the other 763,904 voters switch to?

It's a mystery.

Can I invite potential UKIP voters to think for just a second.

So, UKIP say they're not a racist party. But if you WERE a racist, who would you vote for? And if you're not, do you WANT to vote with racists and stand alongside with them?

Second: Who do you lock out? Who is NOT welcome? Are you comfortable in telling this person this or that?

Third: For me. There's a part of me that says we're all human beings. Are you less of a human being if your skin tone is different? Or your accent? f there was a war on our planet, who would you want to win? Is it the beetles? The spiders?

MANAGING immigration is something the government has to deal with. there being not enough housing or school places or jobs is not the fault of the individual.

But I say this as a person whose heritage is jewish, so I really should have been burnt in those gas ovens, shouldn't I. And you wouldnt' have let me in.

I've probably got your job, even though I was born by 3rd generation and my dd prob has your child's school place.

Immigrants are the current escape goats for the poor economy.

We only have to look back in history to see that in hard times it's easier to blame a vulnerable subset of the population than to propose actual solutions that could improve the economy.

It's easier to just say blame the immigrants. Or the gay, or women, or a minority group...

Interesting take on immigration. From the outside or from the inside? :)

Ending with "I have a much better idea: let’s levy punitive taxes on people who insist on having children, and then spend the money giving food and shelter to Libyan boat people."

I'm right behind you, should upset a few pearl clutchers until the immigrants move next door!

FFS - we are full up, tell them to go elsewhere , or is that a different Agenda. We can't take every stateless person, wise up somebody! ,

Patsy if you're going to be a bigot, do at least try to express yourself well, won't you?

The immigrants who have lived next to my parents for the past 20 years or so pay massive amounts of tax and send their children to private schools.

However That is anecdata.

The main reason the OP should feel embarrassed voting for UKIP is that the leader admits that most of what he says is a load of old tosh to get attention and the candidates keep having to be sacked because they are loons.

If you want to vote for a novelty party choose one that's a bit more entertaining.

www.loonyparty.com

I don't know why people bother starting threads like this on mumsnet - all you get is 100's of people telling you you're an evil bigot who doesn't deserve the vote - why put yourself through it? I used to think the term 'fascist left' was a joke, but I honestly think some on here would throw UKIP voters in a dungeon never to be seen again ( yay for democracy !! )

I have never voted UKIP & probably never will, but I agree with them on expensive HIV treatment for any one who steps off a boat or plane - how is that justifiable when our NHS is really struggling?

I haven't rtft but I think as long as you can hold a well-structured argument based on fact and reasoning for voting for any party, you should be able to do it loud and proud. The problem is that this is rarely the case.

Whatever their policies and manifesto, UKIP represent the far right. If that's where you sit, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to informed views and beliefs.

Hitler et al managed to convince the Germans that the country's economic problems were down to the Jews and that it was ok to ethnically cleanse the country. Anne Frank's neighbour shopped them all to the police, just for being Jewish, knowing that she was sending them to a certain death.

It's hard to understand how all these things actually happened, but then you watch UKIP's rise based on building support by marginalising sections of our communities and playing on people's fears, spreading the idea that immigrants are the cause of all our country's ills. As such they're attracting voters who are voting for them for the wrong reason and this is why UKIP voters are being challenged.

Let's hope that the majority of this country has more sense and we're not going to start seeing immigrants being reported by neighbours, round up, having their belongings confiscated and sent 'back home', with the mass public turning a blind eye to any mistreatment thinking it's the answer to everything and necessary to save our country.

If the main parties handled this issue more sensibly rather than brushing it under the carpet UKIP would not be having the success they do

And if the main parties educated people as to the real stats - the daily mail would not flourish peddling shit like it does

Everyone is so fast to slate Katy Hopkins (rightly ) yet doubt they would be very pleased if the vacant house next door was turned into a hostel for 40 Eritrean male refugees.

On a humanitarian basis it's horrific - and we don't want to wait 5 hours in a and e either !

We live in an unfair world really

LikeIcan, it's justifiable because these are human lives!