AIBM to not let ds2 4 wear his Elsa dress out anymore due to twattish sniggering parents

[NellysKnickers]

Ds2s hero is Elsa. He loves her and Frozen. He also loves mud, dinosaurs, trains and his bike. He wore his Elsa dress to pick up ds1 from school today. I'm shocked by the amount of parents giggling and pointing, I expected a bit from kids who dont know any better but adults? ?? I'm torn between being upset and wanting to pinch them in the face ( obviously I would never do this in reality) Why is it that people think it's ok to laugh at someone a little bit different, Dh just says they are a bit thick!

Thank you, OnlyLovers.
Home, I was merely pointing out that within a mixed group of 3&4yr olds attending a Frozen party, almost all of them wanted to come as Elsa. There was no division of the sexes.

We are forever telling mothers on here who are disappointed about the sex of their baby that little boys and little girls are pretty much the same and aren't bound by the constraints of their gender. DS said he wanted to go as Elsa and it didn't occur to me there would be an issue with this; and there clearly wasn't judging by the overwhelming amount of Elsas attending the party.

As an aside, I have 3 sons and a daughter. So I have known a fairly large sample of preschool boys quite well in my time. Most have dressed up in costume dresses at some point either at home or at mine. Those with big sisters seem to love it more than most. My eldest is 12 and whilst I don't recall ever buying him a dressing up dress, he certainly had no hesitation in dressing up in them at other's houses. If he expressed a longing to do it now then I'd support his decision but worry hugely at how he would be treated by others. I would probably encourage him to keep it indoors for fear he would be laughed at. But at 3/4yrs??? No way.

Who would you rather change the mind of?

a) a little boy who likes to wear his Elsa dress

b) a bunch of adults (or kids) teasing or bullying a little boy

Round here you couldn't do the weekly shop without encountering at least 3 Elsas for several months.

If it is okay for girls aged 3-7 to do the shopping dressed as Elsa (as in it isn't "too flamboyant" or "parents showing off") without anyone giving them a second glance then why is it a no-no for boys?

It's highly likely that at least some of the Elsas I saw were male - I wasn't really paying attention...coz seriously who closely observes what other peoples kids are wearing?

I think some here are underestimating just how cruel some kids can be... Is the OP's 4 year old going to be attending the school his older brother is going to? His brother's classmates may well be the ones doing the teasing if he does start in September.
I would allow my son to wear the dress if he desired, but I wouldn't allow him to wear it to the school he was due to attend.
I can vividly remember a girl from my primary school being christened 'wee the bed' in reception class after an accident, and was still teased with the name in our final year.

don't you think you might have embarrassed his older sibling is that YOUR brother in a DRESS

His older brother seems to fully grasp that there is nothing wrong with and nothing embarrassing about a young boy wearing a dress.

Actually I think it's sad so many assume the kids will be mean and bully, I don't know the kids you know but I do know plenty and actually children are remarkably accepting. Prejudice is learnt. I am the mother of a boy who likes to dress up, and that I includes fairy dressesand a bright pink silk party dress. He is now ten and still dresses up, he has worn them to school on non uniform days and it's not been an issue. Did we worry?hell yes, but the reality is that it hasn't been a problem. I think part of that is his personality, he is outgoing and confident, the kid that is friends with everyone. Everyone comments on how lovely he is (they don't see the stroppy behaviour we sometimes get at home!. He has four siblings, two older and two younger, they aren't bothered by him dressing up either. Why would they be.

Other children may tease, some will some wont but if that doesn't bother the child then why should we use that as a reason to stop a 4 year old from wearing what he likes. As for adults sniggering.....they are pathetic.

That's been my experience too 5madthings both with friends of Dds who like to dress up and children I've taught.

I think as well, if kids are teasing, it's not a reason to stop doing something, it's a reason to intervene with the kids who are doing the teasing.

5madthings
Actually I think it's sad so many assume the kids will be mean and bully, I don't know the kids you know but I do know plenty and actually children are remarkably accepting. Prejudice is learnt.

Yes, because school children are known as the bastion of tolerance and kindness toward anyone a little 'different', aren't they? And 'the children I know', certainly my own daughter, have been brought up without prejudice, and not to be mean, to be accepting of others choices. She certainly wouldn't laugh at a little boy in a dress.

Unfortunately that can't be said for all children though, and just because 'all the kids you know' are kind, doesn't mean there isn't a nasty one waiting in the wings.

I'd do all I could to minimise the chances of my child being bullied/teased.

(And as I said upthread, I would allow my boy to wear the dress if he so desired, just not to the school he was due to attend if that is indeed the case)

To what extent are school uniforms to blame for kids believing that dresses are for girls not boys? Do you think school uniform guidelines should say that boys and girls can wear dresses/skirts or trousers even if no boys opt for a skirt?

I'm just surprised that adults are so judgemental of what a 4 yr old is wearing. They are just s little, practically still babies - they just look sweet and funny when they dress up.

As for the negativity to little kids going out dressed up in any kind of dress up gear - do people really disapprove of this. It almost seems to upset people but you see it all the time.

Homeishappiness - you have said you would snigger behind such a childs back (luckily not to their face) - that you find it revolting, ostentatious and attention seeking etc. That you would probably have the conversation atbhome with a friend at how silly the child looked in quite a strikingly negative tone. I just find this such a strange reaction about a very young child dressing up for fun.

There was a toddler boy wearing an Elsa dress at pick-up today. My only thought was that he must be boiling in all that synthetic fabric as it was so bloody hot this avo! I'd forgotten all about it until I saw this thread. No one else seemed to be batting an eyelid about it.

What a load of drivel!!!!!!!

OP YANBU. The parents who laughed were rude and ill-mannered. If my 4 yr old DS wanted to go on the school run in an Elsa dress I would have let him too. Who on earth has to be so controlling of a 4 year old child that they dictate everything they wear (weather permitting)? They will have plenty of years ahead of them as an adult probably wearing suits/uniforms - if they can't be themselves at this age, when can they be?

Some of the posts on this thread are really nasty and judgemental. Reading through this thread I felt like I was in a time-warp and back in the 1950s....

FWIW for those who say 'only on Mumsnet' this is what happens where I live:

My 3 yr old DD often wears fancy dress on the school run - I am gobsmacked people think fancy dress is not 'suitable outside clothing' - are we in Victorian times? She is particularly fond of wearing it with her blonde Elsa wig. She does get quite a few comments, always positive though.

There is a boy in DSs class at primary school who often wears dresses, particularly to parties or the school disco. It is unusual I will give you that, but as others have said we do not know the reasons why he does this, whether he just likes it, or if it's another reason, and to be honest its none of my business. No-one would point or laugh and I would think they were incredibly ill-mannered to do so.

'The Boy in the Dress' by David Walliams is a popular dressing-up choice on World Book Day, in fact my friend's 9 yr old son borrowed my daughter's dress to wear for this (with football boots) :-) he looked great and he got a few jokey comments from his mates, but no-one 'curled their lip' (what an unpleasant image that is)

Our school male caretakers also like dressing up, and on World Book Day one came as Goldilocks in a blonde wig, the other was dressed as another female fairytale character. Everyone thought it was fun not weird.

As for 'men in dresses at the school gate being stared at' - at our school we have a dad who wears a Muslim thobe I think it is called (the long loose ankle length dress) - does that make some of the posters on here uncomfortable too?

As for girls wearing boys fancy dress being stared at, what rubbish - I was at a 4 year old twins birthday party recently and one girl was Elsa and the other Spiderman. They both looked great.

I could give plenty more examples like this but you probably get the picture. I am really glad I live where I do where people are accepting of each other and not judgemental or restricted by 'cultural norms'. No, it's not Brighton or LA by the way.

There are a lot of posters on here who are projecting their own prejudices/upbringings/personal issues upon this discussion. I think they need to take a close look at themselves and examine exactly what it is they feel so uncomfortable about. Why is it is so bad to stand out, or to be different?

Perhaps my kids school is unusual (I had hoped not, but reading this thread I fear it is), but here you are judged on who you are, not what you look like. The values that are communicated to the children are things like kindness, thoughtfulness, doing your best, being yourself, valuing everyone and not judging those who are different. These are the things that are important, not what someone wears. There is also a strong anti-bullying policy. Maybe that is why the 5 year old boy in my DSs class felt it was OK to wear a dress to the school disco, and I feel really glad that he was in an environment where he felt OK to do that. Yes it makes him different, but no-one has a right to judge or laugh at him for it.

(By the way it is a normal mainstream state primary school in a city)

Next someone will be saying boys shouldn't do ballet....

As for 'men in dresses at the school gate being stared at' - at our school we have a dad who wears a Muslim thobe I think it is called (the long loose ankle length dress) - does that make some of the posters on here uncomfortable too?

Next someone will be saying boys shouldn't do ballet....

Nobody has mentioned either, so I'm guessing on an almost 600 comment thread, nobody has 'a problem' with Muslim men in traditional clothing and boys doing ballet.

I 100% agree that having sexist school uniforms is a bloody awful idea and one that increases stereotyping.

Schools should have a word with themselves on this topic. We don't have a different dress code for men and women at work or in the labs - why should we have them for children?

To everyone who has never seen a 4 year old boy in a dress - how do you know you haven't?

It's very difficult at that age to tell what sex a child is unless they are wearing gendered clothes and/or have an obviously gendered haircut . You very likely have and didn't even notice.

The only thing which would bother me was if the clothing was not appropriate for the weather. But then I hate being cold and seeing anyone of any age, sex or gender not wearing enough warm clothing in cold weather bothers me.

There is however a double standard on MN. AIBU and the feminist threads are full of proud parents telling us how much their daughters hate anything pink or sparkly or feminine or commiserating with the unfortunate parents of girls who do, that never mind they will grow out of it. I don't think the posters on the feminist forum even notice they are doing it- being patronising towards girls or women who like (despised ) girly things seems to come very easily to some.

To everyone who has never seen a 4 year old boy in a dress - how do you know you haven't?

I'm 100% sure I haven't.

I wouldn't let my dc's go on the school run in fancy dresses for no other reason than I just don't want them too - what on earth is so wrong with that?

There are a lot of posters on here who are projecting their own prejudices/upbringings/personal issues upon this discussion. I think they need to take a close look at themselves and examine exactly what it is they feel so uncomfortable about.

Being teased. As a child and it was pretty shite I can tell you. The stares, pointing, the remarks, sneers they hurt. And that was just for wearing some clothes that were either too small or too tight, not fucking fancy dress. I wasn't brave enough to stand up to them or let them wash over me. Now I'm older I wouldn't and don't give a toss what anyone thinks about what I choose to wear. I'm shocked they care! Says more about them than me.

So whilst I can I will attempt to limit the teasing my dc's might get by keeping their clothes as anonymous as possible so they at least won't get teased about that.

My ds is a flamboyant and eccentric dresser, but is considerably more circumspect at 6 about what he'll wear our of the house than he was when he was 4.

He used to go out in a tutu and wellies and goodness only knows what and only ever attracted indulgent smiles (or maybe I ignored any bitchiness).

Let him find his own way and take no notice of anyone else.

I think that some posters have really painful experiences of bullying which explains why they feel so strongly about dressing to fit in and escape notice. That makes sense to me and I totally understand that perspective - it's completely justified, unlike the reaction of lip-curling revulsion which has no defence or justification including the age-old retort of bigots that 'I'm only being honest'.

However, I feared bullying as a child and was terrified of not fitting in so as a young tern I went the opposite way. I didn't think I could pull off fashionable clothes and I felt I would be compared to cooler, more attractive peers if I wore the same as them. So I wore attention grabbing, eccentric clothes (some of which make me cringe looking back!) I had wacky accessories and dyed my hair every colour of the rainbow. It was so that I knew my outlandish outfit was the reason for any attention I got, rather than worrying that people were staring at me for being ugly or wearing the wrong trainers or whatever. I was deliberately, defiantly different and that meant I was prepared for people's reactions and I knew why people were looking at me.

It was totally at odds with my shy, quiet, studious personality and I honestly think it saved me from being teased. Other kids would ask me why I dressed that way or dyed my hair but not in a mean or sneering way. I was certainly considered odd, but I wasn't attacked for it. Whereas I feared that if I tried to look like everyone else, I would come up short and be victimised as a result.

My son goes out daily dressed as Spider-Man, Darth Vader, Robin Hood, Superman, Iron Man, a pirate etc.. I can see how he loves the attention he gets (all positive) despite being a shy child. It gives him confidence and he loves it and enjoys it. Because my experience of standing out is largely positive, I don't see the harm in kids dressing up like this and in my area, I can't imagine a 4yo boy in an Elsa dress being mocked for it so I don't see the harm in that either.

However, I remember several years ago when an 18yo girl was beaten to death in a park just for being a Goth. I heard her mother talk on the radio about it and I have never forgotten the agony in her voice. Whilst I passionately believe in challenging discrimination and prejudice, I do understand that if you live somewhere conservative and judgemental, you wouldn't take that risk. So I understand why some posters wouldn't let their boy wear a dress in public on those grounds. I'll never understand those who would mock and jeer and feel disgust themselves though in response to it.

Ds1 was always dressed as a fairy when he was at the childminder's. He was slightly younger. Men make careers out of dressing in women's clothes: dame Edna, lily savage and Eddie izzard. Ignorant people judging an innocent child.

I'm 100% sure I haven't.

How are you 100% sure? The only way I can think of to be 99.9%* sure is to see the child naked.

I have strangers 100% sure my DD is a boy, and contradict me if I say otherwise.

*you still can't be 100%- there are genetic abnormalities and other medical conditions that may mean physical sex is ambiguous.