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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBM to not let ds2 4 wear his Elsa dress out anymore due to twattish sniggering parents

610 replies

NellysKnickers · 13/04/2015 16:00

Ds2s hero is Elsa. He loves her and Frozen. He also loves mud, dinosaurs, trains and his bike. He wore his Elsa dress to pick up ds1 from school today. I'm shocked by the amount of parents giggling and pointing, I expected a bit from kids who dont know any better but adults? ?? I'm torn between being upset and wanting to pinch them in the face ( obviously I would never do this in reality) Why is it that people think it's ok to laugh at someone a little bit different, Dh just says they are a bit thick!

OP posts:
OnlyLovers · 15/04/2015 17:25

I didn't see your reply, Home, but sorry if I missed it.

Do you just 'find a little boy wanting to look like Elsa harder to understand' or do you find it problematic? I mean, I'm no longer four and (sadly) don't have access to my four-year-old thoughts/mentality, so I can no longer really understand why I used to want to dress up as (e.g.) an elephant, a queen or an explorer. But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean that I find it to be a problem that I used to dress up as these things.

OK, so the dress is 'ostentatious'. But 'parading around'?

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 17:26

No Home, I really strongly disagree with your idea that this child and other children are "doing it to be different" or to get attention. They're not!!! To them they are being themselves, my DW is a boyish lesbian, she has never worn a dress in her life. She's very private and not in the slightest bit attention seeking. That is just how she feels comfortable and always has. Who do you think would have been most unhappy if she'd been forced into a dress? She'd have been mortified and felt lie she was in drag!!

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:27

Satsuma, I agree with you there :) I don't think they are deliberately doing so to get attention but I am explaining that the nature of the dress will attract attention.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 15/04/2015 17:28

Home I can completely relate to having a mum with an appalling dress sense. And mine had me wearing some awful shit too. I got teased mercifully over the either too tight or too short or just mismatched crap I wore. I wanted to fit in with my friends wore perhaps the plain trousers or dresses. But no trousers were for boys and if I had to wear them they'd have frilly crap stuck on them to make them look more girly. Non patterned dresses, hell no! They had to be loud and brightly coloured because guess what! Mum liked those colours. It was a relief when I started working and earned my own money to buy what I wanted to wear

As a result I don't want my dds teased over what they wear. If this means I have to step in and say Sorry love, you're going to get teased if you wear that then I will.

Sorry, that's irrelevant really, just ranting. Perhaps time to leave this thread.

pinningwobble · 15/04/2015 17:30

Believe it or not, I have thought about this thread and pondered at length why I have such a strong reaction to boys in dresses. I think because the message seems to be to care more about the 'principles' than the child's happiness. I would over something important but an Elsa dress? No.

OP's DC wanted to wear the dress. He. Wanted. To. The OP did not force him into it while he kicked and screamed "PLEASE MUMMY, LET ME WEAR TROUSERS LIKE THE OTHER BOYS."

I feel like you're suggesting the OP dresses her son in frocks in order to be contrary, when in reality her son merely saw something he wanted to wear and wore it. As a four-year-old he has no concept whatsoever of what he 'should' and 'should not' wear according to society's completely arbitrary rules about dress. Thank goodness he doesn't. I wish life were still like that for the rest of us!

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:31

Mrs, ah, bless you and her - what were they thinking! Mine was the same.

I also (this is relevant, I promise) have a brother as mentioned previously and he never fit in anywhere, bless him Sad Some of this was ASD but some was inappropriate dress sense: I still have nightmarish memories of explaining to him why he couldn't go to view our deceased father in the funeral home topless Shock it was a very hot day and in his mind that justified it!

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 17:32

Yes, understood but if you do happen to be a bit different then you are always going to attract some attention anyway. You can't help it. If you feel horrible about that then it eats away at you and you feel shit about yourself. Much easier and healthier to acknowledge that the way you are is a bit challenging for other people but that really is there problem. Well it's up to each individual, that's how we've always dealt with it anyway. I think lying about who you really are to fit in is much more damaging long term than developing the confidence to just get in with it.

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:32

I know, pinning, but that's just the point. That's when, if it was my little boy, I would have said 'no sweetheart, not for outside. Go and choose a t shirt.' I really don't want people laughing at my child. If when they grow up they weigh up how much they want to wear something against the likelihood of laughter or being shunned, they can!

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:34

Again, I agree and I certainly think 'being yourself' matters. But being yourself doesn't and really shouldn't mean wearing particular clothes. It is a state of mind not an outfit. Furthermore and perhaps most relevantly here, it's hard being yourself when people laugh at you. Much better to gradually realise who you are and then decide what matters with a mature mind and approach :)

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 17:35

Excuse numerous typos!!

pinningwobble · 15/04/2015 17:37

homeishappiness I can accept that you're well intentioned here but I really think you're coming at it from the wrong angle and you've been strongly influenced by your own upbringing (as I have by mine, but in the opposite direction).

I actually think having a couple of people laugh at you is far preferable to the idea of growing up thinking it's not acceptable to wear whatever the hell you want to. I struggle with this in all areas of life. I struggle with the fact that I have to wear stupid smart shoes to work that hurt my feet because they're deemed 'appropriate'. Completely arbitrary. Utterly meaningless.

Never mind the fact that he's four years old, and will most likely grow out of it. I can assure you my brother no longer takes his barbie into school!

OnlyLovers · 15/04/2015 17:40

But Home, on the one hand you seem to be saying that you can 'gradually realise who you are and then decide what matters with a mature mind and approach', as though in a vacuum; but on the other you've been very articulate on how your family's dynamic has affected and continues to affect you.

So which is it? Can someone have whatever upbringing and then still decide for themselves how to be/how to dress/etc? Or does upbringing affect how someone is?

leedy · 15/04/2015 17:40

"Furthermore and perhaps most relevantly here, it's hard being yourself when people laugh at you."

It is. I'm still glad my parents didn't encourage me to conform/to be "more normal", I don't think I'd be the person I am now if they did.

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:40

The joys of technology!

I suppose we all have hangovers from childhood and mine is just wanting to be 'one of the kids' :) I can of course understand how horrible it is when you are told implicitly that who you are isn't enough and that's wrong: it is. But, where we differ, I think, is that some think a boy dressing as Elsa is being himself - I'm more inclined to think the danger here is he will never learn to be who he is if it is teased, mocked, insulted out of him as it was for me.

But some of you do probably live in more progressive areas. It is quite backwards round here in some ways.

Just to answer a point I have only just seen - I would not sit around the dinner table with DCs discussing how silly another child looked: I would say so in passing to a friend/partner. :)

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 15/04/2015 17:42

What I'm trying to say, albeit badly, is that I wouldn't let my children go out in anything that would draw attention to them.

And fancy dresses/dressing up gear would, Imo, do just that.

And I am more than aware the op's. Boy WANTED to wear the dress and wasn't forced too but he was pointed and giggled at. I know he was unaware which is good but the op was and it bothered her. It would've bothered me too but I wouldn't have let him go out wearing it.

MistressDeeCee · 15/04/2015 17:43

Yes, Id raise eyebrows too if I saw a boy in a dress..I don't think thats an uncommon reaction and don't believe the masses are blase about this kind of thing either, the majority of people will look amiss at what they don't see regularly. I would never ever laugh in front of a child though. Things like that can stay with a child, no need for that sort of unkindness at all.

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 17:43

Yes, it is hard being yourself when people laugh at you and many/most children would probably decide that they'd rather conform which is up to them but if you impose that decision on them you're actually communicating to them that you are uncomfortable with the way they are.

It sometimes is about clothes in part actually as illustrated by my example with DW.

I'm not saying I'd never guide dd if she had an idea about what she wanted to wear and I felt she's be laughed at but if she was confident enough to wear it I'd let her. Equally if she wanted to blend in I wouldn't judge that either.

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:45

Only, I think children need guidance which doesn't come in the form of either telling them draconically what to do ('you will NOT wear this dress!') but also doesn't come in completely ignoring all but the most important issues either.

If my son had wanted to wear a princess dress outside of the home, at 4, I would say 'no lovey, it's not for going outside on the street in. Go and choose a t shirt.' I would want to give him choice and freedom (choosing the outfit) but guidance as to what isn't quite suitable.

If my ten year old wanted to wear a dress, I'd listen seriously. I'd possibly think there was a bigger issue at hand and want to support my child but I'd be behind them every step of the way defending them to the death because it is a choice. At 4, it's not so much a choice as a lack of realisation. That's a slightly muddled point but hopefully one that's reasonably clear - apologies if it isn't.

Mind, I think I'd have to urge my ten year old to wear a dress that wasn't Disney :)

MistressDeeCee · 15/04/2015 17:46

& OP hopefully you managed not to show you were upset. Although I guess when you took DS out you knew there'd be quite a reaction anyway, albeit from adults its maybe more of a surprise tho. But still, even children laughing wouldnt make your DS feel good, would it. Hope he isn't feeling upset about it still...

OnlyLovers · 15/04/2015 17:50

some think a boy dressing as Elsa is being himself

I really struggle to see how you think a four-year-old dressing as anything they currently love is NOT being themself.

What a four-year-old doesn't realise is NOT who they really are; it's how society THINKS they should be.

Basically, what I want is an answer to this question: why is an Elsa dress on a boy 'not for going outside on the street in'?

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 17:51

Why isn't it "being himself" just because you don't feel comfortable with it? Are all the other children being themselves then? Just not him because he looked different.

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 17:53

Because it's over the top and flamboyant and attracts negative attention, laughter and mockery.

If it did not my answers would be different but as evidenced by the thread, it does. A big dress is designed to attract attention. As we know from the scathing posts on here, attention seekers are generally mocked. Unfortunately (and I really do mean that) it is considered socially acceptable for a girl to derive attention because of her looks but not a boy - hence the laughter.

OnlyLovers · 15/04/2015 18:02

over the top and flamboyant
Sorry but they are value judgements, not facts.

attracts negative attention, laughter and mockery.
In this case, yes, but not necessarily in every case of a small boy wearing a dress.

Unfortunately (and I really do mean that) it is considered socially acceptable for a girl to derive attention because of her looks but not a boy
If you really do think it's unfortunate, why do you persist in suggesting that the person wearing the dress is the one who needs to change, not those laughing and judging?

leedy · 15/04/2015 18:02

What if "who he is" is over the top and flamboyant?

Homeishappiness, I can see how your not conforming in your childhood made you feel uncomfortable, but I think that's making you feel that a really important thing to do for your children is help them not stand out (because you and your family felt "different" and you didn't like it), and I think that's potentially quite damaging.

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 18:04

Oh, we stand out, but not through clothing. That's something you do have a choice over. :)