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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBM to not let ds2 4 wear his Elsa dress out anymore due to twattish sniggering parents

610 replies

NellysKnickers · 13/04/2015 16:00

Ds2s hero is Elsa. He loves her and Frozen. He also loves mud, dinosaurs, trains and his bike. He wore his Elsa dress to pick up ds1 from school today. I'm shocked by the amount of parents giggling and pointing, I expected a bit from kids who dont know any better but adults? ?? I'm torn between being upset and wanting to pinch them in the face ( obviously I would never do this in reality) Why is it that people think it's ok to laugh at someone a little bit different, Dh just says they are a bit thick!

OP posts:
Reluctantlandlord · 15/04/2015 18:05

I haven't read the whole thread but my now 5yr old ds3 went to a frozen themed birthday party about 2yrs ago. There was about 8 boys and 10 girls and all but one of the girls were Elsa, the other was Olaf and all but 2 of the boys were Elsa, one Olaf, one was Kristoff. DS was an Elsa! So clearly in real life nobody much cares about 3/4yr olds dressed up as Elsa.

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 18:06

Well maybe he is flamboyant and attention seeking, so what? He's not allowed to be that either because he's a boy?! I get that it would embarrass you, we're all different and I can understand that some people hate to attract attention. I do understand the urge to protect your child from ignorant people but I think it's far worse to collude with that ignorance and make your child feel like there is something unpleasant about their choices.

Fwiw some of my lesbian friends were horrified that my Dd was always extremely girly and pink! It was like some weird reverse gender stereotyping! I explained that this was how she was and I let her be herself, I think they wanted to believe that she had somehow been forced into it!

LibbyBi15 · 15/04/2015 18:08

We’ve all heard of people not wearing a certain skirt, a shoe… red?! because they’re not confident enough. Don’t think that all the responses are negative. Perhaps some, maybe not all, but some admire this early onset free thinking.
When I was young my sister dressed up as Aunt Sally, but I wanted to be Worzel Gummidge- he was, after all, the star of the show, and I thought he was great. We still have the photos and I regret nothing!

Homeishappiness · 15/04/2015 18:08

You're a rainbow family too? :)

I think he can be flamboyant, not because he's a boy but because he's 4. It's the not understanding how to weigh up the situation I'm objecting to here - the parent needs to.

Reluctant, do you honestly feel that on the basis of one party you witnessed, everywhere in the country will smile and barely bat an eyelid at Elsa-clad boys?

enderwoman · 15/04/2015 18:13

Does everyone remember when David Beckham wore a sarong and how much he was ridiculed despite it being long and plain (not frilly like an Elsa dress) ?

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 18:16

Yes we are, and it's lovely x

OnlyLovers · 15/04/2015 18:19

Home, perhaps the point Reluctant is making is not so much that 'everywhere in the country will smile and barely bat an eyelid at Elsa-clad boys' but that in some places and situations people don't bat an eyelid; and that maybe it'd be nice if this were more widespread.

(Sorry for jumping in, Reluctant; hope you don't think I'm trying to speak for you).

enderwoman · 15/04/2015 18:19

Satsuma fairy-it's not wrong to be flamboyant and attention seeking. It's wrong to moan that an outfit that is out of the ordinary attracted attention. My daughter often went out in combos like swimsuit and wellies - I am pretty sure that people judged my parenting for allowing it but she wasn't bothered so I wasn't either.

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 18:19

I guess we'd weigh it up differently then! I may think "oh some people might stare and point....ignorant twats..off we go!" If my child was upset by it that would be different.

Micah · 15/04/2015 18:26

Often though, people stop others doing something because they perceive others won't approve.

When I was bf I went to visit my mum in her very conservative, northern village. She tried to dissuade me from bf in public because "it's not like down south, people aren't used to it and won't like it".

Well I bf in public anyway. And no-one batted an eyelid. Bearing in mind most of "the men" my mum was so scared of offending were farmers, who spent their lives breeding animals, milking cows, and we're probably of the opinion that paying for a baby's milk was a mortal sin, when it comes for free.

Devora · 15/04/2015 19:12

Again, I agree and I certainly think 'being yourself' matters. But being yourself doesn't and really shouldn't mean wearing particular clothes.

Home, what your posts are saying to me loud and clear is, "Being yourself is good: so long as you are Being Yourself in a way that everyone else approves of". It is obvious that 'flamboyant' dresses hit your buttons, for reasons that are personal to you. Therefore you are insisting that a small boy wanting to wear a dress cannot be an authentic expression of himself, but must be about a stupid parent forcing her child to do something that is damaging to him.

I've already explained at length upthread (roundly ignored by all who took a different view Grin) that tolerance of diversity is great for all kids. My children can't help but be 'alternative', just as I couldn't help it in my day. It's great for them if the message, "You are who you are and that is ok; it would be boring if everybody were the same" is reflected in real diversity all around them. If the message children are getting is, "Being Yourself is good, but only if you do it in a way that nobody - however narrow-minded - could ever object to" that's not really much of a step forward for society, is it?

leedy · 15/04/2015 19:16

Applauds Devora.

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 19:54

Yes I can see that ender but I didn't moan about it?! I will admit I find it tiresome when people stare and whisper about my family because we are different. We don't try to be that is just how we are. I'm not setting out to be attention seeking anymore than the boy in the Elsa dress.

Devora, that's exactly it.

LikeIcan · 15/04/2015 19:54

Where is this going? - are you expecting society to completely change it's views on how men dress? - is it your aim that in years to come it will be ok for a man to wear a dress to the office?
Because if that isn't the overall aim, then what's the point in letting a young boy run around wearing a princess dress? It's great that children are able to express themselves freely, but where's the cut off age? 10? 12? 15? - or isn't there one?
Because if you don't want a complete change in how society views male attire, then most of what's been posted here is a load of old tosh.

Micah · 15/04/2015 19:57

And on another thread, people are suggesting a 7 year old removes her body hair in case people point and laugh.

What is this world coming to. I thought we were getting more accepting of others differences...

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 19:58

I don't give a monkeys what men wear to work or anywhere else! The discussion isn't heading anywhere, there's no sinister agenda. It's just about whether a 4 year old should be able to wear a dress and how to treat people who are a bit different.

enderwoman · 15/04/2015 20:08

Satsuma I meant the OP not you were moaning about the attention her son's outfit attracted. If you are not "the norm" you'll stand out. I'm pleased that the 4 year old was unaware and hope that the laughter was the same kind as a boy dressed as a dog might attract .

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 20:08

For some reason it's totally ok for a man to wear a kilt though!!

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 20:10

Yes I hope so too.

enderwoman · 15/04/2015 20:14

Satsuma- maybe it's because in cultures where men wear kilts, tunics, kimonos etc they end to be plainer than a princess dress- no shone, jewels etc

flippinada · 15/04/2015 20:16

Here's some fun facts for people whose sense of propriety is offended by small boys who wear dresses.

100 odd years ago, it was quite usual for boys to wear dresses up until the age of 5 or 6 - my paternal grandfather (born 1908) certainly did, I have a picture somewhere. Gendered clothes for young children are a fairly recent invention. It was also considered shocking and against the natural order of things for a woman to wear trousers - I'm sure we would all agree that is ridiculous.

If you want to go even further back, 250 years ago, it was normal for men (of a particular class) to wear high heels, elaborate wigs, full make up and have long hair. Nobody would have batted an eye at a small bot in a frock.

The point being, what is 'normal' changes and is not innate or fixed.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 15/04/2015 20:31

Well, what's wrong with men being able to wear dresses if they want to? It's different anyway, because we're specifically talking fancy dress and imaginary play for pre-schoolers. I'm not suggesting an adult man should go to work in an Elsa dress. He has to wear clothes suitable for work. A school-age child has to wear school uniform to school. A pre-schooler is free to dress up and play pretty much the whole time. I'm not bothered if in twenty years time men are strolling around casually in dresses, I don't care. It's not my aim, nor do I think it would herald the apocalypse. But regardless of that, I think 4 year olds should be able to play with whatever toys they want and that includes dressing up clothes. I'm not even particularly advocating little boys wearing normal dresses, I'm saying that when they're playing dress up, kids shouldn't be limited to gender-matching characters.

The idea that it's ostentatious and proving a parent's 'cool' credentials - that reminds me of Farage accusing women of 'ostentatious breastfeeding'. Like you need to see an agenda when it's just people getting on with what they want to do.

GColdtimer · 15/04/2015 21:52

Home I think you were unfair to accuse teddy of not getting over her childhood when your experiences have clearly influenced your beliefs and behaviour now. Because you desperately wanted to fit in you can't imagine a world where someone might not care about fitting in. For some conforming is as torturous as not confirming was to you. But I don't think this is what this is about anyway, it's about letting a child play and pretend to be whatever takes his fancy. That is the beauty of childhood is it not?

My dd1 who is 9 is the only girl in her year, if not her school, who has a really short bob. All the girls seem to have really, really long hair. She wanted it cut short, I let her. She loves it and could not give two hoots what other people think. I wish I had half her confidence.

Devora · 15/04/2015 22:14

LikeICan, yes I think it would be a fine thing if men could feel free to wear dresses. I see absolutely no logical reason why clothes should be gendered.

Satsumafairy · 15/04/2015 22:39

I agree Devora. I just don't understand why people are so threatened by the idea of someone doing things a bit differently! Who bloody cares? The thought that people would have a public or private laugh about a 4 year olds choice of fancy dress costume, in an unkind way, makes me think they are very small minded, insecure people.