To think children should give up their seats for adults

[BeeInYourBonnet]

And their parents should encourage them to.

Especially when they are young enough to sit on their parents laps.

You are only teaching them to blindly obey adults if you don't explain reasons behind giving up seats.

There IS NO reason for a child to give a healthy adult a seat. What part of that is so hard to understand?

Dig=dog

My child, when travelling, may also have a heavy (for him) backpack.
Or he may have been walking all day.
Or just out of sports practice.

Hamitoes, I salute you

And if they have heavy bags or have been on their feet all day, or have run a marathon, or have inappropriate footwear on, or are lazy, or just can't be bothered standing, what the hell does that have to do with me and my child?

You are aware children are humans aren't you? Not little slaves designed to go without just so they can be taught some none exsistant lesson in "adults are more deserving than you and don't forget it".

I can see the signs now:
Please give up your seat for the woman in the 10 inch stilettos.

Hahaha

"Please give up your seat for all ladies of breeding age incase they are actually pregant"

But don't you dare expect that burden to come out of you with any rights.

BTW I love it that my generation - the generation that gave the world binge-drinking, binge eating and slacker culture is now of an age to complain about kids not giving their elders respect.

I mean my grandparents fought in WW2. My parents marched against nuclear war and for civil rights. Maybe they deserved a seat more than we do?

Show me some respect children! I queued for the loo at Glastonbury for hours! Hours I tell you!

Until they are 18.

I would be embarrassed if a child gave their seat up for me just because I'm an adult. My need is not greater than theirs and I'm not more deserving than them just because I happened to be born thirty years before them. On public transport I've often offered my seat to young children because it's easier for me to stand than it is for them.

Obviously children (and adults) who are capable of standing should give up their seats for those with greater need than them, but it's not always possible to tell who needs a seat, so sometimes you'll need to ask as no one's a mind reader.

'Why do the YANBU arguments keep dredging up the idea of the person wanting the seat being frail, elderly, disabled or pregnant? Nobody is arguing that these people shouldn't have priority in terms of seating'

You can't always tell if someone is pregnant, has a problem with their knees, or is unsteady standing... and they shouldn't have to announce it to whole carriage. It's far more likely an adult has greater need of seat than a child. Most people don't ask unless they are desperate. If your child has a hidden disability or you can't put toddler on your lap fair enough, but you can't blame someone for politely asking for the child's seat. And you can reply politely eg 'sorry he really needs this seat'.

I'm not saying you should get child to offer seat to any adult, just that he/she should be perceptive and be prepared to offer seat to an adult who seems in need of one. Or offer it to anyone who is pregnant or elderly, or looks unsteady. I frequently see elderly people and pregnant women standing on public transport while children are sitting.

Many people work 12-hour shifts on their feet all day. They might also be struggling with heavy bags of groceries. I don't think your child being tired from sports or having a backpack to carry really compares.

It's far more likely an adult has greater need of seat than a child.
Why?

Most adults between 18 and 50 are perfectly healthy.

I've been a pregnant user of London public transport twice - both up to 40 weeks. No child has ever sat in a seat while I've been left to stand. Their parent has offered the seat or put them on their lap. However plenty of middle aged men have completely ignored me.

I've also been offered seats or help with buggies most often by teenage boys.

Well I think if someone has a heightened need for a seat which would not be visually obvious to others then the onus is on them to politely ask for the seat and I certainly wouldn't blame them for doing so. I agree with everything you've said CaspianSea about being perceptive and prepared to offer a seat to anyone who is pregnant or unsteady but don't understand why this only applies to children.

Many people work 12-hour shifts on their feet all day. They might also be struggling with heavy bags of groceries. I don't think your child being tired from sports or having a backpack to carry really compares.

Actually, not that many people work 12 hour shifts and are literally on their feet all the time.
Heavy bags or groceries go on the floor. Or it's obvious a person has difficulty carrying them, so anyone who can should offer a seat. Just not automatically the child.

And as for comparison, why don't you try to put yourself in the place of the child? I'd go so far as saying that it does compare. Children easily push themselves to almost breaking point and then crash and need the rest. Adults can pace themselves better.
It reminds me of the time we walked into A&E with DS who had bronchiolitis (coming from the GP). The nurse dismissed it, as DS seemed fine, until she saw how low his oxygen levels were. He just pushed himself until he couldn't go anymore.

Parents who don't put small kids on their laps are selfish IMO. I do with my 6 year old, never mind my 1 year old.

On the other hand, a healthy adult is far better placed to stand than a tired and fractious 11 year old. Kids are smaller and less strong. So no, I don't think that age range should sacrifice their seats. I see kids prior to teens, but where they can't sit on laps (occupied by a younger sibling, perhaps) as more in need than I am. I stand for them, actually.

Everyone should stand for frailer people, be they elderly, pregnant, disabled or whatever. The notion that kids should know their place, and that the place they should know is one of automatic inferiority, is not pleasant IMO. We should model what we want to see - that means courtesy and thoughtfulness to kids. That way, we can demand they display it to others - and believe me, I do - with genuine moral authority.

Also, I have never forgotten an incredibly polite young teenage boy on a Sydney bus, in a 1950s style private school uniform, leaping to his feet to offer me his seat with what was obviously automatic instinct.

I'd turned 30 the week before. I wanted to cry. Boys were standing for me on the bus - I was an old. Wah.

A hoodie type teenager, the other day, moved seats so that DS and I could sit next to each other. No adult has ever done that. :)

I blame the parents. :)

On transport if seats are needed I am more likely to stand and let DS stay seated. His need for a seat is greater than mine.

In other places, in not paid for seats, I would possibly put him on my knee if space/mood allowed. If someone was struggling and needed a seat i would offer mine.

Yanbu OP.
I have taught my three children to always stand for adults. It's called respect.

'We should model what we want to see - that means courtesy and thoughtfulness to kids.'

I agree with this part. Adults need to set good example too, by offering seats to those less able to stand. But I don't agree with the 'kids come first' or 'kids are weak and delicate' attitude. Most kids do put themselves first until reminded to think of others.

I disagree with poster who said 'children are less strong' and need the seat more. How is a healthy child less strong in a way that limits ability to stand? I appreciate they may have less stamina and less body mass (eg to lift heavy items), but they are perfectly capable of standing up. And they are far more flexible, with more energy than the average adult. The likelihood of a child having joint problems, foot problems, pain/stiffness in legs, low/high BP, shortness of breath, balance problems, being laden down with heavy bags, having been on feet all day etc etc... is far less likely. In contrast many adults (particularly those over 40) have chronic health conditions that make it hard to stand for long periods.

I know plenty of women (fit healthy women in 30s like myself) who feel faint standing on stuffy trains for long periods. Particularly when they have their period, or are pregnant, or have been too busy to eat for a while. It's very embarrassing to ask for a seat because you feel faint, sometimes people pass out before they ask someone to move a child. How many children get faint or dizzy from standing? How many kids have exhausting days at work where they are rushing around all day, followed by a supermarket dash before train? If more children sat on laps or stood to let ladies sit down (as they did when I was young) people feeling faint would be less of an issue.

If child can't sit on lap why can't they sit on floor, perch on a luggage-rack or stand in aisle? There is rarely space for adults to do this but kids take up less space. Would you really let a woman in her 50s sit on floor in aisle because your 5-year old 'needs' the seat more??

It seems many parents think their child's 'need' for a seat overrides manners and respect for elders. How many kids are so fragile, delicate or weak they cannot stand up for a while or sit on floor? Maybe they spend too much time being sedentary in front of tv so genuinely lack energy or inclination to stand.

Referring to other posters comment about sitting on flood post-c-sect because kids took up all seats, I think it's appalling kids were allowed to take up seats while adults sat on floor! Lots of adults (not only post-surgery) find sitting on floor painful and difficult. Why on earth didn't parents prompt them to move?

Many adults over 40 have chronic health conditions? Are you serious? If an otherwise AB, healthy adult lacks energy and flexibility it's probably because they spend too much time sitting on their arse.

And they are far more flexible, with more energy than the average adult.

Are you serious? You are making out like once you turn 18 its all stiffness and lack of energy. I have far, far more energy than my children, purely down to the fact that they are growing humans! Thats the reason I go out to work everyday and they don't. An average healthy adult should be able to outwalk a child. Children (and other young of various species of animal) don't have more energy than adults, they have the same playfulness you'd find in a kitten chasing its tail, and thats natures equivelent of us modern day adults going to the gym to work out- it physically prepares their body for adulthood.

But thats not why my child will have a seat over you. Not because they are frail or delicate or spending too muc time in front of the TV. My child will have a seat over you because she was there first.

And i'm just as flexable as they as they are, maybe because I spend alot of time on the floor playing with them and less time with my arse on a seat.

I can kind of see both sides of the argument here - blind deference is an anathema to me (our Tory overlords would doubtless like us to go back to the era when we doffed our caps to people who were richer than we are). However, on the few occasions I took my ds on a train when he was small, he would sit on my lap or dh's lap if the train was busy, but that was for a short journey (around 40 minutes). I wouldn't dream of doing otherwise.

I don't believe that giving your seat up for adults teaches you that abuse is ok.

If I were going from say Liverpool to Edinburgh and had booked seats for the three of us, I would not expect my ds to have to give up his seat. And I would expect the guard to sort out seats for those who needed (as opposed to merely wanting) them. If you are going on a long journey and need a seat you should book in advance. I do appreciate that the elderly/disabled/pregnant etc might want to do things spontaneously like the rest of the population, but if you need a seat, then you need to plan ahead and book too - if you are able to (on my local trains you can't). If you've lost your reserved seat because your train was cancelled, the guard should put you in first class on the next train.

As for school concerts, my son's school sold/gave out limited numbers of tickets so everyone could have a seat. I guess you could turn up on the night and see if someone had not turned up, but it stopped 50 people having to stand at the back.