To ban DD from speaking to "racist child" who uses the N word.

[MaryNotPoppins]

DD (6) came home a few months back saying another child in the class keeps on getting into trouble (thank god) because they keep on saying the N word. They also say The P word for Asians (forgive me for abbreviating them but they make me sick to even type).

I thought perhaps it was a one off after she first made me aware but other moms have also shared stories lately of how horrified they have been after having this child over for playdates regarding their racist language. There wont be any ethnic children present for example and this child will still say "you are an N word" if they are playing if she doesn't get what she want's etc.

I have considered that perhaps it's just ignorance since she has called other white children this name however it has been widely confirmed by teachers and parents (not in a petty hearsay way) that 99% of the time this language is directed towards the ethnic children.

I try to judge for myself but I've never had her over and have never ever seen her parents, she gets dropped off by a child minder who drops off about 7 kids in her class as they all live locally.

Now -

The parents of these poor children at the end of racist abuse have told me some of the things this child has said and it's horrid. Disgusting. She tells black kids to swim back to Africa and eat only bananas for lunch and wont stop telling this poor Indian girl she stinks.

The fact that it's been going on for so long after multiple warnings from the school means it's obviously something embedded in this child from home.

I hate the notion of judging kids absolutely hate it....but this one sounds like a bad egg! I know no child is born racist or perhaps genuinely racist and that it comes from home but where so we draw the line?

My DD speaks to everyone and even if someone has previously been in trouble always gives everyone a chance....but I wan't her to keep her distance from this kid. Its a class of 20 and everyone is friends there arent friendship groups....I don't want her around this vile language or behavior.

I'm not an unrealistic smothering mother I know they have to grow up but 6 is too young to be listening to this rubbish. I hate the cringey idea of telling my DD to stay away from another persons DC it seems so high handed but I don't want her around it. I've told her to always stand up for someone who is being picked on (they are 6 so obviously "That's not nice" will suffice ) and always to tell the teacher....

AIBU to say stay away from this kid but if they ever want to be nice again then fair enough? I don't like the idea of this type of conversation with DD it's very heavy but what else can i do?

Hear, hear, CactusAnnie.

as awful as the child's life seems to be, why should this child get more sympathy and why should this child matter more than the other 5 or 6 children who are suffering daily because the authorities are failing at doing their jobs properly!

In a 'complex' issue as this one where the authorities have failed in the duties and responsibilities to protect 6 year old children from racial abuse does safeguarding priority change to white children only, so instead of 'evey child counts, does it become 'every white child counts'?

Shame on the authorities for failing to protect the black and asian children. But hey, they don't seem to be able to protect the white kid here either, so I guss it is equal opportunities all round after all!

(Except that the collateral damage seems to be the black and asian children, but who cares!)

WellAnnoyed, you haven't answered Hakluyt's very pertinent question. Once this chid has been excluded and placed in another school, what do you suggest should happen next in relation to this child?

Annie no one here has been unsympathetic to the victims of racial abuse.

Ergo in my eyes there is an issue with the people claiming this is so. If that's 'smearing' some poor wonderful people who defend the rights of racist abuse victims so be it.

Suggestion 1: exclude the child
Thread response : scoff
Suggestion 2: have a dedicated assistant in the class
Thread response : scoff
Suggestion 3: let the victims suck it up on a daily basis because their rights aren't as important
Thread response : ....unclear at best
Come on, Mumsnetters: have you got nothing ?

Ok "unclear at best " is a bit unfair. Can we all assume that we all find racism and racist language abhorrent.

Welcome to the world of state education.

There isn't unlimited funding and schools have to support all their pupils.

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes at this one.

You know as unpalatable as it may seem to some said child may be making huge strides.

Le Petit : what would you do?

"Suggestion 1: exclude the child
Thread response : scoff
Suggestion 2: have a dedicated assistant in the class
Thread response : scoff"

I have not scoffed. I have asked what will happen at the child's next school- because an excluded child will be the subject of a "managed move" to another school, and have explained that the resources are not available to provide a full time one to one for this child. This is not the same as saying that black and Asian children have to suck it up. Which as far as I can see nobody has said.

"Welcome to the world of state education."

Yep. If you want people either to be flung out on their ear with no thought for the conquences or to be told to get over themselves, it's only a bit of teasing and that's life then you need the private sector.

Hak: what would you do?

Really?

The only way to demonstrate abhorrence of a behaviour in a way that protects young black and Asian children is to punish, punish, punish?

Here is your non-violent, non-coercive alternative

What I did when my dc has had to endure poor behaviour from children far less fortunate from them..

Tell them that some children have horrendous home lives and are taught to do things that are completely wrong.Explain that it isn't exceptable and to ignore whilst setting an example.When my child was directly bullied I told the teacher who dealt with it.

The op's child wasn't directly bullied ( she mentioned others being at the recieving end). Those directly involved will have had it directly dealt with each time as each bullying has to be logged and dealt with in private. Other parents and children quite rightly simply won't be involved or witness any of it. The wider assemblies etc she mentions will be to reassure and instil core values to the wider school community.

Great stuff duplo ( not being sarcastic ). This school has been very cackhanded in its efforts to do this.

Le Petit. Pupils here are having to endure the kind of messages you don't want children to hear at this age ( or any age). When the time is right, I will tell my dd about slavery, gas chambers and ethnic cleansing. And the connection these horrors have with her personally because of her heritage. The time is not right at 6.

So they're not old enough to understand the wider connotations of said language but old enough to be held responsible for it.

The link doesn't lead to a full description for me, but I agree restorative practices can be very useful as part of behaviour management strategies for some children. I can't see any school not deploying them in some form in a case like this, but again, parents wouldn't necessarily know they were being used as it's none of their business unless their child is directly involved.

I would not want my child to hear this hateful crap. No amount of assemblies, circle time or encouraging words from me is going to prevent a child from internalising this stuff.
If a 6 year old is expected to absorb this stuff then the 6 year old responsible for it should be expected to learn that it is unacceptable.

Oh for goodness sake my dc have had to hear all sorts of things I haven't wanted them to hear.

School doesn't expect them to absorb it and neither do I which is why I do my job and tell them it isn't acceptable.Funnily enough they haven't mutated into loathsome human beings but are quite the opposite.

No school will expect them to absorb just the same they would re any incident of bullying.The 6 year old will most definitely have been told it is unacceptable but undoing poor behaviour takes time as very young children aren't machines.

You don't really understand the concept of behaviour management, do you, sparky? That's not a criticism - many parents don't and it comes as a bit of a shock to realise that schools have to work on aspects of behaviour in order to foster understanding and inclusion.
Personally, I think a whole school approach to tackling things like this can be very valuable. I've seen it have excellent results.

And you're wrong re the effectiveness of circle time,assemblies etc whilst clearly having v little knowledge re education.If assemblies,circle time etc have zero impact we may as well all give up now and kids may as well stay at home.

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but is it possible the child is in care?

I am a foster mother, and would never be seen at one current school as have to take other children to schools in the opposite direction, therefore the child would always arrive with another carer or by taxi. I mention this because I have recently had a child with entrenched racist and homophobic views. They held onto these views despite every effort on everyone's behalf to change this. Psychologically I believe they held onto these views as it was as if they were holding onto their parents, a bit of a security blanket. They knew how hurtful and unkind they were being, but they had been raised to be hurtful and unkind, and so continued to spout these views. The school were initially helpful and understanding of this "special case" and did all they could to help, as well as punish. However, a change of head meant a change of policy and the foster child was immediately excluded. Having been excluded for racist language no other school would take him and so he has now been without full time education for six months (tutors also will not work with him).

The other thing I would mention is that one of my own children suffers from Tourettes. As a child, and indeed now too, he usually has a word/tic of the moment, uses it for a few months and then moves onto another. All totally out of his conscious control. Once it was a racist term. My son was horrified, completely horrified, especially as members of our family are black. He was in agonies about it, but of course could not stop. think the stress of this probably made it much worse. Because that school had a zero tolerance policy he also was asked to leave, and as this was in senior school his education suffered hugely, and he ended up with no qualifications. This of course has cast a shadow over his adult life.

So my reason for quoting these examples from my own life, are even with these "special circumstances" the schools still excluded the children. So I wondering why this school does not?

Term starts again. DD goes into school and her education is interrupted again by this awful stuff. Another year wasted. But that's Ok because it is being resolved by woolly words.
I'm sure your view is more complex than that and I am sure you don't advocate damaging educational prospects for ANY child or indulging racism but that is the consequence.

It's not 'indulging racism', sparky. I am not racist. Inclusion and behaviour management are not racist.

Thanks, riveravon, good post.