To ban DD from speaking to "racist child" who uses the N word.

[MaryNotPoppins]

DD (6) came home a few months back saying another child in the class keeps on getting into trouble (thank god) because they keep on saying the N word. They also say The P word for Asians (forgive me for abbreviating them but they make me sick to even type).

I thought perhaps it was a one off after she first made me aware but other moms have also shared stories lately of how horrified they have been after having this child over for playdates regarding their racist language. There wont be any ethnic children present for example and this child will still say "you are an N word" if they are playing if she doesn't get what she want's etc.

I have considered that perhaps it's just ignorance since she has called other white children this name however it has been widely confirmed by teachers and parents (not in a petty hearsay way) that 99% of the time this language is directed towards the ethnic children.

I try to judge for myself but I've never had her over and have never ever seen her parents, she gets dropped off by a child minder who drops off about 7 kids in her class as they all live locally.

Now -

The parents of these poor children at the end of racist abuse have told me some of the things this child has said and it's horrid. Disgusting. She tells black kids to swim back to Africa and eat only bananas for lunch and wont stop telling this poor Indian girl she stinks.

The fact that it's been going on for so long after multiple warnings from the school means it's obviously something embedded in this child from home.

I hate the notion of judging kids absolutely hate it....but this one sounds like a bad egg! I know no child is born racist or perhaps genuinely racist and that it comes from home but where so we draw the line?

My DD speaks to everyone and even if someone has previously been in trouble always gives everyone a chance....but I wan't her to keep her distance from this kid. Its a class of 20 and everyone is friends there arent friendship groups....I don't want her around this vile language or behavior.

I'm not an unrealistic smothering mother I know they have to grow up but 6 is too young to be listening to this rubbish. I hate the cringey idea of telling my DD to stay away from another persons DC it seems so high handed but I don't want her around it. I've told her to always stand up for someone who is being picked on (they are 6 so obviously "That's not nice" will suffice ) and always to tell the teacher....

AIBU to say stay away from this kid but if they ever want to be nice again then fair enough? I don't like the idea of this type of conversation with DD it's very heavy but what else can i do?

No, no one has answered it. The child is carrying on.

The other six year olds just have to wait while she works through it. Like I said previously, she may be having a devastating effect on them. They're only little. Why the hell should their formative years be influenced by being called P and N??!! Not fucking acceptable. It's not 1974.

Aaargh.

She probably is ejected whenever she says such words the same as chair throwers are. I'm pretty sure the class don't carry on discussing connectives as if nothing has happened.

Its not, haven't you read about what the school are doing to support the kids whilst trying to manage the child who is saying those things? Letters home, assemblies, sessions with kids, meetings with families....

No one is ignoring the impact on the kids being called these awful names. The reason that this thread has gone on so long as that some people (on top of thinking it's not OK for the kids to be victims of this) think that it's not OK for groups of parents to engineer a situation where that child is ostracised and demonised, other people have interpreted this as not caring about the rest of the kids.

If this six year old is consistently and openly defying the teachers' pleas to behave in a socially acceptable way in the classroom, to such an extent, I assume she does have some sort of special needs in addition to a weird home life where she's heard such extreme and unpleasant views.

So perhaps the school are putting some kind of assistance into place, but effects of new schemes aren't immediate with kids, and they may have to try a few different systems to see how she responds?

There might be other agencies involved.
And of course it isn't appropriate to discuss this with the rest of the parents at the school.

Nobody would want a situation like this to continue.

If you don't trust the school to deal with this, it can't be a decent place at all and if I were you I'd be thinking of moving my children somewhere else.

This thread is really frustrating.
I still feel that there appears to be an inordinate amount of concern for the child. While everyone is deciding on what intervention should be taken to help this child, the black and Asian kid just has to endure racial abuse,
TA for said child ?-too expensive/ will bankrupt LEA
Exclude the child??- no she has problems and will become someone else's problem if you move her to another school.

The solution- black and Asian kids just have to suck it up.

oops! twice!

I agree, areyou. It is very frustrating to see a 6 yr old written off as Bad (and indeed Mad, by some posters) and to be called a racist for presenting a wider view of how schools deal with serious behavioural issues.

Look, how does addressing the problem directly with the child in question amount to saying black children have to suck up racism? What other solution do you suggest, areyoubeingserviced? Bearing in mind that excluding the child will not stop her being vile to other black children?

Think that I will start head banging too

Mrsstar, it is easy to say racism is abhorrent. Very easy indeed but how is that easy speech put into practice? How has that school demonstrated that it is abhorrent (not necessarily for you to answer)? I am sure the teachers would repeat those words 'racism is abhorrent'.

It is meaningless if in practice racist behaviour, no matter age, gender, social status, etc is not dealt with in a way that communicates that it is abhorrent and will not be tolerated.

Don't know why I am still on this thread but it is a very interesting discussion.

I started typing out another post about inclusion and behaviour.

Then I caught myself on.

So, headed any naice desks lately, anyone?

Sparky suggested that the child in question should have someone assigned to her to monitor her behaviour and remove her from the classroom environment if required.
This would mean that the child would not have to be excluded.
I accept that this is would be costly, but the child probably has a number of agencies trying to help, which I presume would be costly.

You don't get a pot of money that's transferable in that way, unfortunately, areyou.

"It is meaningless if in practice racist behaviour, no matter age, gender, social status, etc is not dealt with in a way that communicates that it is abhorrent and will not be tolerated"

Right. I agree. So WHAT SHOULD THE SCHOOL DO?

I think the school should remove child and then agencies should 'intervene' and look into safeguarding the child. The child obviously needs help, but this should not be sought on the school premises if it means it is at the expense of the black and asian children.

Several options were suggested throughtout

Expulsion to send message to child and parents that this behaviour cannot continue. There has so far been no change in this child's behaviour so an escalated discipline is not unreasonable.

Contact social services to help make parents accountable for the behaviour

I'm not about to read all 27 pages; no you are not being unreasonable to not encourage your child to befriend the other child in question. Parents limit their children's interactions with other children and adults in a multitude of ways some more covert than others. You need to do what is best for your child, that is your role. I have had my children transferred into different classes for reasons less than this.

So the child is excluded- and goes on to another school. Which is what happens. Then what?

look they are six! most likely y1. the reality is that in a y1 class room you might come across children who are physically violent and hit out when they are frustrated, children who are disruptive because they can't sit still and concentrate yet, children who say unkind things. but they are six they are still learning.transgressions need to be dealt with firmly of course , but to some extent children this age do have to accept that behaviour of some of their peer group is going to fall short of standards of adults BECAUSE THEY ARE LITTLE CHILDREN

I'm not reading all the 27 pages, but having had good friends on the receiving end of some very vile racist abuse and having been brought up in an environment where all races, religions and cultures were respected and valued, I will not soft peddle around this. I understand OP's reasons for wanting her child to stay away from this kind of behaviour.

(Now, I haven't read any updates so, bearing this in mind...) What I would do is:

1. A firm but politely worded letter to the class teacher, departmental head if there is one (some schools have a teacher just in charge of the infant school/ Nursery to Year 2 section), head teacher and head of the school board.

2. I would explain to my own child that these words and attitudes are very wrong, and explain how hurt we would feel if someone said those things and held those opinions about us. I would explain that if we heard those words or attitudes in our own family, there would be trouble and "I learnt it from my friend" would not hold water. I would explain that it is good to point out to this classmate that such comments are wrong, but that if this classmate rebuffs, retaliates or retorts, it would be a good idea to play with other kids. Actually, I don't think it's wrong, at the age of 6, to explain that some people just have very bad habits they find it hard to break but they must try to break them. Then I'd ask my child to let me know if she got any trouble from that child or other children for standing up for what is right.

We've had "problem kids" from time to time - though nothing as extreme as this, which I agree is indeed extreme - and even at age 5 or 6, the children are more aware of what is right or wrong behaviour than we (unless we have older children whom we've already gone through this with) would realise.

3. Might also be worth having a word with all the other parents to see what they would do. If they all agree it is appalling and want a meeting with the head teacher and class teacher to work things out, that might be one way to do it. In particular, it may be worth asking the parents of the pupils who have been subjected to these "choice words" whether they would like to attend the meeting together.

I do think racism is as bad as stealing, misogyny or physical bullying. Racist taunting is indeed a form of bullying. We wouldn't say "let things be" if a child continued to steal from your child's book bag or if a child continued to hit your child at the playground. Racism is the same.

I grew up in the early 60s in America, and not in the South. The 'N' word was used regularly by certain children. Most of us would have gotten our mouths washed out with soap if our parents heard us say that word. And yet, all they basically told us was that people who used that word were 'tacky' or 'low class' and that 'God loves all his children just the same'. A child using it at school wouldn't have gotten in any more trouble than if they'd said a swear word or called another child a rude name. We weren't told to ostracize those children by our parents, but after time, we did on our own, because we figured out by ourselves that they just plain weren't very nice or fun to play with. Your DD and her little friends will figure it out, too. Since you are open-minded and inclusive, your DD will emulate your example, not the example of one poor, misguided child. As long as you continue to tell her that this child is wrong and why.

As far as playdates, I wouldn't invite the child over, in the same way you wouldn't invite a child who used bad language or was rude or disrespectful.

I would still, however, keep on the school about it. Eventually, with enough pressure, they'll have to do more than they're doing now.

LondonRocks - I agree. The kids she is taunting also have a right to go to school and not get bullied for something that is 1) not wrong (there is nothing wrong for being a different skin colour to this problem child) and 2) which they have no control over. There are policies against bullying in every school in our education authority. Time for the school to follow it, or else it's time for an official complaint to the MP and the education authority. It's not Mumsnet readers' responsibility to worry about what happens when those in charge don't do their job, or when other users of the education service (parents of this problem child) continue to flout the regulations.