To Have Walked Out

[queeneileen]

My mum is truly doing my head in. She's managing to drum up arguments left, right, and centre with both me and my DS(13) I've got to the point where I'm limiting the time DS and DM spend together to less than 30mins at a time - they're as stroppy as each other and wind each other up - but I still go round every night after work for a brew. She's 67, disabled (can still get out and goes out every Saturday night to the local for company), but doesn't really do much socialising during the day.

Aaaaaanyways, she's just becoming more and more argumentative. Yesterday we rowed about politics, royal mail, the SNP, Scotland, her tv guide.
Today it was about employment law and the fact she thinks it's a shame employers can't hire who they want but instead have laws they have to cow-tow to. This was all sparked from her asking if Asians owned my opticians as the place was "flooded" with them. I work for an employment law company and started telling her about (quite sodding obvious) laws in place to stop discrimination happening. Queue massive row where I don't allow her to have her own opinion and it culminated in her accusing me of calling her a racist pig, and me telling her she IS racist. She is - not 15mins before she told me she was nearly sick when the Asian optician was checking her eyes as he was in her face. (note: I'm sorry. It's what she said)

She decided then she was offended that I think she's racist, and offended that I could say that to her in the manner I did. And I just said I was leaving and walked out.

I can't hack listening to her. I can't hack the rows. I can't hack the expectation of me sitting there listening to her spout bullshit because it's her opinion, even if I find it offensive. I end up openly questioning what she's saying and - I'll be honest - telling her she's talking crap.

I'm hugely sad I've walked out but AIBU to have done so?

I find it deeply offensive when people suggest that it's normal (even natural) for the older generation to be racist or homophobic. What a fucking insult to the many older people in this country who do not hold such bigoted views.

My parents are in their 70s, my dad is nearly 80. Both came from ordinary working class backgrounds. I remember them teaching me that racism was utterly immoral back in the 1970s. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.

People aren't racist because they're old. They're racist because they're racist.

OP, it sounds like your mum seems to be getting more and more difficult. I would be concerned that this might be a sign of deteriorating health. I have seen this a few times with elderly relatives.

I don't want to worry you, but I also think that, since you are obviously very close to your mum, you should remember the old saying: "Don't let the sun go down on your anger".

I would try to follow the advice of the people who recommended headphones and a bland smile when your mum kicks off, together with a clear and boring repeated statement along the lines of "I am not going to argue with you".

By the way, you sound amazing. I think it's great that you drop in on your mum every day and keep an eye on her, and that you can be so kind to her, though your eyes are so open to her prejudices.

YANBU

To those who think her attitude is just generational, how would you feel if you were the optician? It would make me very upset if someone was to react to me in that way simply because of my race. The DM's age has nothing to do with it.

daffs I'm going to try very hard not to be sweary but you need to get over yourself.

You want to talk about change? My dad is near the OP mother's age. We are white South African. He grew up in a very Afrikaans (read racist) small town in a (visible) all white community with racism actively promoted by the state and the social norms. Over his lifetime, he has seen a complete change of politics and a black president. Is he racist? Is he heck. He'd tan my hide (even at my age now) if I spouted what the OP mother did.

I understand why my relatives back home continue to have the sickening view they do. They are still racists.

I am older than your mother OP and greatly resent hearing somebody suggest it is because of her age. I am not racist and neither are any of my peers, or any of my older relatives.
I do have a younger relative (mid 20's) who often makes racist remarks, although they feel they are not racist remarks. (calls friends My N-word, type of thing.)

PS OP, I know you didn't say it was due to your mothers age, if my post is a bit muddled. And no, you were not unreasonable to walk out.

But think long and hard about why UKIP has been allowed to gain power.

Because the UK like the rest if the developed world is facing economic problems that are complex and play out over many years and a lot if people can't be bothered trying to understand that so they'd rather just vote for the funny man with the beer and the bunnet who reassures them it's all the foreigners' fault?

Glad your finally being honest and showing your true colours Daffs.
If you're the sort of person who thinks UKIP are a breath of fresh air, then your call for equality for women clearly means you have no actual idea about the policies of the party you claim to support.

Might be worth mentioning the increase in arguements to the GP OP, being increasingly irrational can be an after effect of a minor stroke.

I notice you didn't address my point about many of these nameless people you've railed against ALSO being English (and fgs, stop conflating English with British, it's really annoying) by virtue of being born here.

To use an example given by the OP, my optician is Asian by his racial background. My daughters optician at the same practice is white. The white guy is the Australian immigrant, the Asian guy is English by dint of birth - most of the 'brown' faces in our part of London are third generation Anglo Asians and have lived in the area longer than I have.

Not that it's relevant, but my mother is white (well, being Irish she's more of a translucent blue) and born and raised in the UK. So bore off with whatever racist assumptions you've got going on.

Did the optician have curry the night before?

I'm in my 60s and don't understand people saying it has all changed so much. What? I grew up in a big city, round one corner was the Mosque which was built in the 60s but the Synagogue round the other corner was much older. There was a big West Indian community from the late 50s. My best friend was Polish, well her parents came here after the war and she was part of a big Polish community and couldn't speak English when she started school even though she was born here.

The Pakistani community arrived in large numbers in the 60s and when I had my first son more than half the women on the ward were Pakistani, the rest of us were British, Polish, West Indian and Irish.

Maybe it was different in rural areas but big cities were multi cultural from the 50s onwards, I can't say about before I was born.

Enoch Powell made his vile "rivers of blood" speech in 1968, when the OP's mother would have been around 20. It caused outrage even back then. Age is no excuse for prejudice.

Immigration is not a new issue, and racism is a very old problem.

My Mum was a lot older than your Mum is and my Dad is nearly 80 now.

I have a Gay nephew and they love him very much,they excepted him coming out a lot easier than my idiot brother did(his father)and his father is 54.

I'm white(kind of, Gypsy heritage so look like I have a lovely year round tan) most of my boyfriends were black when I was growing up.I dated a guy from Vietnam for a long time when I was younger and my parents hoped I'd marry him.

One of my aunties is black,she's from Barbados.One of my great Nephews is dual heritage his dad is from Sierra Leone.

Some of my Dad's best friends were Gurkha's(many of them have passed away now sadly)they all served together in the Army.

So not all of the older generation are Racist thankfully.

Nope, no one I know in their 60s are racists, my parents who would be in the 80s now were definately not racist either, in fact I remember my father in the 70s installing in us to respect everyone and to never treat anyone diffently due to the colour of their skin or their religion, wise man my father.

Not reading the whole thread because there are some comments that are making me come over all twitchy .

The only thing I'd add is that possibly the stroke, depending where it was, won't have helped. Often - and this can happen in ageing anyway - the bits of the brain that act as our sort of antennae, and tell us what is/isn't socially acceptable, and when to shut up, deteriorate.

So that hasn't made her suddenly racist - and it sounds like she was previously anyway - but it may have made her a bit more overt about it, and also contributed to behaviours like winding up your DS.

You're right - you can't change her, or argue her into being pleasant, so don't get drawn in as you'll just wind yourself up in the process - but a gentle and firm insistence that your daily presence hinges on her desisting when you ask her too might help.

YANBU. Her views are racist and offensive. But I had a relative like that and I found the best approach is to avoid the subject or take it lightly, don't engage, and visit less. My relative got worse the older she got and I think loneliness and being scared of the future is what did it. She needed to complain about something and also probably feared all the change. Once I learned not to take her views to heart and keep the conversations light our visits were much better. She was a lovely person who had done loads for her family and we do miss her now. So maybe try and be more tolerant yourself and don't wind her up either as there really is no point. And I say this as an immigrant myself. The world is not going to suddenly become a better place bc a little old lady is now all liberal and enlightened.

Of course, reducing the number of visits would be a good idea too because I know that your patience does run thin if you have to listen to that stuff every day.

She may have had some mini-strokes that have affected her brain and caused her to fly off the handle more regularly. You could encourage a check up with the docs

The thing is the OP isn't just arguing with her mum about race, she is arguing about employment law, politics and the Royal Mail etc her mum is just argumentative, and will try and argue her point regardless of whether she is 60, 70 or 100 years old. people like this will never change, opinions about certain things can change, but not their argumentative personality, they are so sure they are right, so sure they are talking sense it's like arguing with a cardboard box, there is no logic.

My mum was exactly the same and would say that starving Africans are lazy, homeless people are all drug addicts and it's their fault, curry and all spicey food will give you stomach cancer, giving to charity is stupid, it was so hard to not argue with her. But I just bit my lip, changed the subject and enjoyed the fact that my friends were not like this, that my DH is not like this and she is just a difficult woman. And I'm glad I did, as she died holding my hand in December, and there were no regrets. She was like I said earlier in the thread, a royal pain in the arse, but some people are, you can tell there are people on mumsnet (on loads of threads, not this one) that are so sure they are right about certain things, they are probably just as argumentative and difficult in real life. But your mum is your mum, not someone you can ignore (easily) you just have to cope with her strong opinions, not agree with them, would be my only advice. X

Having racist views is one thing. Constantly arguing with someone about them with someone who doesn't want to argue is another.

Are there any non-contentious topics you can talk about with her? If there are, who is responsible for turning the conversation from these safe topics to ones she is likely to get argumentative about? If it's you, stop doing that. If it's her, either limit your time with her or learn to deflect the conversation to something else when she goes for one of those subjects. What happens if you tell her that you're not interested in talking about a particular subject, or if you try to change the subject?

My parents are older and have racist views, as well as political views that I find repugnant. I have learned to avoid those subjects when talking to them. When their state had a ballot initiative about gay marriage, I made damn sure I never brought up the subject when talking to them. I've accepted that there is most likely nothing I could say that will change their minds. I don't enjoy hearing them spout off, and discussing that kind of thing with them is very unlikely to be productive in any way, so I don't do it.

If she really wants to argue with someone, and is at least somewhat computer-literate, I'm sure she could find a venue where such arguments would be more appropriate.

My grandmother spouts all shorts of shite just to rile me and piss me off because she knows how strong my bleeding heart liberal beliefs are. She does it for a reaction. If you DM doesn't have much excitement in her life she might just provoke arguments instead.

My father is 83. He was born in a farm laborer's cottage in a rural area. He left school at 14. He doesn't do racism. Or homophobia. He's not really sexist, though he's a shocking (if gentleman-like) flirt.

It's not about age. It's about putting everything negative on the shoulders of the 'other'. It's about lazy thinking. It's about not having anything else to feel superior about. It's about not thinking anything new but having the same old loop running in the mind.

OP, if you are still here, you could try saying if you want to hear that stuff you would watch Alf Garnett, but I would suggest that you actually do walk out every time. At that point you are being very clear about what you will or will not tolerate. You do not have to accept her views.

I know how hard it is. My mother's brother, who is a lot younger than my father, makes Alf Garnett look like Red Ken. He doesn't rant to me, though, because I refuse to rise and will walk out/hang up. This was hard to do a few years ago when he was very poorly, but being frail/elderly/poorly is not a free pass to upset people.

She's apologised today.

She's poorly - her blood results are squiffy - so I wonder if that's had something to do with her argumentative nature recently.

We've also agreed to not discuss politics or race. Neither of us are happy about what happened.