To think more outrage is needed over Tory threat to child benefit?

[flower68]

According to papers today Tory planned welfare cuts can't be achieved without further cuts to child benefit. George Osborne has refused to rule it out apparently. Such a cut would be massively controversial, hurt lower income families and is potentially politically toxic for the Tories. So why is no-one pushing them for a straight answer?

Yes, plonkysaurus. When cb was the only benefit we claimed, I thought of it as money belonging solely to the children, and I spent it on day trips, new clothes, toys, birthday presents and things that maybe their more affluent peers take for granted.

These days it just gets swallowed up by the food shopping, and I miss being able to buy them comics and stuff sometimes when they ask.

Agree with 43

They removed it from the "well off" and it was no longer a universal benefit

So now they can change it because it's affecting a very small percentage of people each time

Most of those who have lost it already don't care what happens now and most of those who will retain it after any changes aren't worried...yet

Most...not all obviously

And were a small top up, not the many thousands a year they are now nor were they fiddleable so you can get away with a part time job for full time money

when you look at all the things tax credits now replace or change inc everything it passports you to and various premiums and accessible bits and bobs on other means tested things in comparison a very low income family is likely to be worse off today than say pre 95.

I had three children. When I had them I could afford them. Both me and DH in work.

Only they didn't develop as they were supposed to - disabilities emerged.

What then?

Plonky, it depends on the prevailing interest rate when the government bond was issued.

The government are having to pay 8% on bonds issued 20 years ago later this year and there's no guarantee that interest rates won't rise anytime soon.

I can see why you might propose the idea of halving the threshold Hamiltoes but if you're then going to give those at the bottom double you've not saved any money. Then it's a bit of a costly lefty policy that the tories aren't going to float anyway. I do slightly agree with it, but not as much as I believe cb should be a universal benefit.

Madame will have to agree to disagree. That's one step away from saying all benefits claimants should be paid in food/fuel/clothing tokens because they'll only balls it up if we give them cash.

Honestly my experience of people in benefits is that they count every last penny and take responsibility for their limited income. This government looks for any opportunity to infantilise claimants. And it's clearly working.

Nobody seemed worried when we lost it. TBH I can't be bothered now. It was obvious it was the start of more to come but heh...

A higher tax allowance with no CB or tax credits would be excellent. No room for fraud, all parents on equal footing and no making single households better off than couples so as to live separate etc.

Bishop i'd hope any sensible gov would make allowances for things like multiple births, or having three children who later in life become disabled.

I think reaching adulthood just as the credit crunch hit has made me (and certainly some of my generation as most of my friends think this way too), so so wary about circumstances changing. Its something I'll be drilling into my two (NO MORE!) children, well you can afford that now, but what if.. ???

Such a valuable lesson to learn.

Owen Jones wrote an article about how if you remove a universal benefit from people who are well off its only a matter of time before it gets removed from everybody else.

I think he will be proved right.

So how come pensioners get a life of CB and their dc's uni fees paid for on top of their universal benefits staying untouched but CB for a generation that have got it a lot harder as regards buying a house,having a pension that will support in old age,funding dc's in uni on top of paying off a debt many didn't make gets slashed?

Does nobody think it's ludicrously unfair!

I bloody do LePetit.

Would that be the bubble where people only have the number of children they can actually afford to feed and clothe, then? Rather than relying on other people working their arses off to pay for them?Few things in life more selfish, immoral and downright nasty than popping out kids you know you can't feed and expecting some other poor fucker to provide for them

I have three children. I am a single parent. I could afford my children before my ex walked out, but there you go, shit happens. Of course, you'll say that's my fault - I'm not educated (I have a Masters degree and a professional qualification), that I didn't know my ex before I had children with him (we had been together 6 years before we had our first child), that I had children young (I was 34 when I had my first), that I should never have given up work (my ex earned a small fortune, we would never have had children if I hadn't stayed at home to support him and besides, we lived in the South East where childcare costs for 3 children not at school came in at over £1,500 a month, the equivalent of £25k full time - I was earning about that, with a £3k commuting cost and tax and NI and pension deductions...).

I work full time. I couldn't actually work any harder as I'm a teacher so I'm out the house at 7:30am and I'm rarely home before 5:30pm. Like all teachers, I work in the evenings. I can't get another job because I need to be at home with my children. I barely see my children as it is. I support them myself - because the Government/CSA/CMS hasn't been able to get any money out of my ex. He's self employed and the Law is such that he can get away with it. According to women like you, that's my fault.

The loss of Child Benefit for one of my children will be, I believe, catastrophic to our family budget. I believe that once I lose the Child Benefit, I will no longer be eligible for Tax Credits for that child either - this is not something that has been said but is logical, given that you need to be in receipt of the Child Benefit or have the right to claim it if your income is over the threshold, to be able to claim Tax Credits. The loss to my monthly budget will be somewhere in the region of £350.

As I said, I work. I support my children as best I can. You can't expect any more of me. Yet you're happy to take £350 a month off me and tell me it's my fault. Personally, I find you immoral and downright nasty but mainly I find you very poorly informed and entirely unable to see the bigger picture. Could you afford to lose that much from your monthly budget and still feed, and clothe your children and keep a roof over your heads?

What do you suggest I do with my children? Hand them over to the State to care for? What else do you want me to do? Do you consider me an irresponsible parent who has had children without giving thought to their longer term care and support? If so, what else could I have done to protect both them and me from this loss to our income?

Helena do you have a link or source for the Owen Jones piece please?

So what do you propose LePetit?

Send every pensioner a bill or we could bill the kids who went to uni
In retrospect?

You can't change things that have already happened and you can't base a taxation and benefit system on demographics that are no longer applicable.

I don't consider YOU an irresponsible parent at all fedup.

The irresponsible one is their father and he should pay for them.

The irresponsible one is their father and he should pay for them

But he won't. And the Law can't make him. It is a loophole that has been known about since the CSA and child maintenance law was introduced. No one has closed it. The Government won't close it because of the potential impact on business owners and enterprise and economic growth generally.

So I lose a small fortune from my monthly budget because I have three children. Actually, I would consider not working because I would be better off on benefits.

Fedup, because most people never stop to think if they could still afford numerous children should anything change. No relationship is guaranteed, people may be able to afford three plus children whilst part of a couple but how many think before having so many if they could still afford them if things changed and it was just them?

We may teach the facts of life in school but it needs to go deeper than that. Decent relationship advice, signs of a bad partner and budgetting with various scenarios and life changes. Some parents will do this but it's obvious many don't.

I think we're similar in age Hamiltoes but my opinion is somewhat different.

I graduated in 2009, parents company bombed in the recession so moving home wasn't an option. Had to claim benefits. Volunteered in social housing for vulnerable adults. Saw real poverty. Applied for 200 jobs in 6 months. Was claiming together with boyfriend who was sanctioned for not turning up to a session the job centre failed to inform him of (an 18-24 back to work meeting the day after his 25th birthday).

I've been labelled feckless and a scrounger. And I know that if we were unfortunate enough to have had an unplanned pregnancy in that situation I'd have been so careful to make every penny of that £20 a week stretch as far as possible. I didn't fail to find work through my own fault but because I was unlucky enough to graduate when I did, where I did.

It's so easy to blame ordinary people for this and overlook the global recession that killed a generation's hopes. And now that generation are becoming parents and you're going to take away more?

It makes me so angry. I think I'm going to have to leave you lot to it.

Excellent post fedup EVERYONE is only a couple of pay checks, bad investment, marriage breakdown etc from being on benefits. Jesus wept some of you people have no idea what it's like to work your ass off for NOTHING to not even be able to feed your children when you work full time. Let's pray none of the above happens to you!!

How do you go about getting absent fathers to pay their fair share for their childrens upkeep?

I will do some googling to see what they do in other countries (I think in USA they can have their driving license taken away, or is Judge Judy wrong)

I totally agree with it being capped at 2 children. If you can't afford to support more children without child benefit then don't have them

i worked from leaving school right up until the 7th month of pregnancy with DC3, i left as it was a physical jobs and i had sciatica and a problem with my pubic bone. I physically could't do the job anymore, i didn't plan on being on benefits. I also split with my partner and ended up on IS for a few years soon after. Im working again now but i don't think it would be fair if my CB was limited but someone who's never worked and had 2 kids can claim it.

I just don't see how they can make it fair for everyone if it is a blanket policy, some people will feel hard done by whatever they do although i do think something has to be done. Just can't see how they will make it fair

The Tories only care about the rich and the grey vote.

Every parent should think about that before they vote.

It's the law that is at fault and it needs serious and urgent reviewing.

No relationship is guaranteed, people may be able to afford three plus children whilst part of a couple but how many think before having so many if they could still afford them if things changed and it was just them?

Sigh. I don't know anyone who thinks like this. We enter marriage as a life-long commitment. We can insure against the death of a spouse - job solved. We can't insure about them shagging the secretary and deciding she's a better bet. I would never, ever in a million years have been able to afford 3 children as a single parent. I would never have had 3 children had it even fleetingly crossed my mind that my marriage might not last. I actually wouldn't have been able to have children at all. That's a qualified professional, presumably the kind of person you want to be pro-creating? So what should I have done?