To think more outrage is needed over Tory threat to child benefit?

[flower68]

According to papers today Tory planned welfare cuts can't be achieved without further cuts to child benefit. George Osborne has refused to rule it out apparently. Such a cut would be massively controversial, hurt lower income families and is potentially politically toxic for the Tories. So why is no-one pushing them for a straight answer?

Maybe just the local party, then. I'm not a member myself, but my parents are very active in the campaign and they said that the local party had identified a list of undecided voters who will be prioritised. They won't be invited either, though they have met him before.

I'm not bothered by this. It's a campaign after all. He needs to make the best use of his time!

Fair enough, Kampeki. It was a great experience though, for the first time in like forever, i felt hope that they might actually have a chance. And it was awesome seeing my tired hungover daughter turn into a little activist - just what is needed, people her age going out to vote. Fingers very firmly crossed.

Yes indeed, my digits are firmly crossed! And good for your dd - let's hope she can convert her friends! :)

I don't think removing CB is the most important thing to be outraged over. My view is unpopular but with the exception of pensions and unemployment, I'm against the idea of the govt giving out cash to people.

I want the govt to invest in services and support, but find the idea of the govt just giving money out to people a bit of a vote grab. Of course the money helps people but money always makes a difference unless you're in the top 1% and don't have to watch your pennies.

So deadduck why? what is inspiring? He's clearly impressive in the flesh based on his list of girlfriends. But what really original groundbreaking policies does he have?

william let's hope you never have an illness or disability that leaves you unable to work. Even if you have savings you will quickly use them up on the horrendous costs of living with a serious illness or disability and then if you are unable to get any welfare support what would you do? How would you survive? People don't ask for serious illnesses or disabilities and I think only a rotten person would begrudge people with illnesses or disabilities having financial support.

To clarify my point william people with illnesses or disabilities don't fit into the pension or unemployed categories which are the only ones you think are worthy of any financial support.

She just said except for unemplyment and pensions,which to me covers illness, disability.

I read it that things like Tax credits and CB shoudl be reined in so that we can then affod to properly support the most vulnerable.

tobysmum i dont know about you but if i woke up tommorrow to find myself in the Daily Mail because an ex of mine had decided to go into politics and/or become the leader of a political party i would be mightily pissed off at the gross invasion of my privacy just because of career decisions that an ex made.

And this is not Milibands fault at all. Thats not what im saying.

Super excited: What ponio said. Of course I don't begrudge financial help to people who are very unwell or disabled. And of course I hope that if such a fate befalls me I would be supported assuming my support could be afforded.

But I just think the principle of cash handouts is very dodgy. When did the govt start giving out so much money? The problem is everyone can benefit from a little help from the gifts ivy and cb is the perfect example - even parents on higher incomes saying they need the money.

What I must object to is the use of the phrase 'most vulnerable'. It is a pat, meaningless phrase that doesn't identify a particular group but some random undefined amalgam.

It's overly emotive and can't be challenged -- no one wants to hurt the most vulnerable', do they, because after all they are very vulnerable!!!

It's so loaded. I really wish everyone would stop using it. It really is the new phrase of 2014/15 and I just hate it.

'From the govt' not 'gifts ivy'

I'm a single mum of two on benefits...but what did I do to get there?

Well...I got seriously ill and then my husband walked out on us to be with the OW.

I've never had to claim benefits before...I have always worked and paid into the system. But I now feel totally humiliated and I feel the stigma everyday.

Perhaps I too had judged people too harshly before but now I have experienced it from this side. The reality of being vulnerable is not nice.

No doubt some people see benefits as a life choice but I don't.

Williamina is right - that word vunerable...

I have heard it being used for people who appear on the Kyle Show, for people who have child after child with no thought as to how they will support them. More and more people are using this term as an excuse for all sorts of behaviour. Last year I saw a thread about someone who had been burgled. They were upset and angry, some posters starting claiming that the young lads who were caught having rampaged through her house were 'vunerable'.

Well that is them excused!

Vulnerable to me means ill, carer, disabled, elderly.

What really gets me is that no one seems to value the fact that it is important to support working families and to actually encourage middle class, professional working people to have babies. Because frankly if they didn't who is going to pay for the ever increasing burden in terms of pensions, healthcare e.t.c as a result of our increasing ageing population? I think governments should be doing all they can to help working families financially and cutting child benefit should not be part of that agenda. How about cutting benefits and freebies for millionaire pensioners and those that made £1000's in the property booms that previous generations were lucky enough to benefit from?

My partner works in the local tax credit office. He told me that he took a call yesterday from someone who is getting over £20k in tax credits per annum because they have nine kids. The mum doesn't work and the father does the minimum hours needed to claim. Sorry, but I have to work full-time to earn that sort of money, and do begrudge people being handed it on a plate just because they couldn't stop having children. The whole system needs overhauled.

But Ponio the problem is how vague your classification for vulnerable is. Ill - ok but would you really classify someone say with cancer who is very wealthy, influential and gets private healthcare vulnerable? Are all disabled people vulnerable?

I think people need to be more specific when referring to large groups of the public. Frankly what I think people are getting at is power and those that have little power or money to change their circumstances.

So for a term- Powerless yes possible disenfranchised or excluded but not 'most vulnerable
Please!

I think Ed has quite a clear vision, actually. He wants to make Britain a fairer place. He wants to invest in public services as much as possible, although he recognises that there are economic constraints. He wants to integrate health and social care. He wants better and more varied opportunities for the younger generation. He wants the richest in our society to contribute more.

Perhaps he should have set an example Kampeki by not using a tax loophole to deprive the treasury of over £100K of inheritance tax after his father's death?

I won't vote for hypocrites and those that tell us all how to live but dont do the same- private schools, hidden wealth, tax avoidance etc.

Ponio I take it you won't be voting Tory then as Dave Cameron and his wife recently talked about how much having respite for Ivan when he was alive made a difference to their lives. They said all this after the Tories had made huge cuts to social care services so that families with disabled children can't access the same respite support that they did and whilst planning even further cuts. That is the biggest hypocrisy.

I am very fortunate i will admit but my situation is not what i wanted it to be.

I am in education. Dh has a min wage job. We have a very small house and mortgage compared to most, in the north where living is said to be cheaper.
Dh works weekends so that we can reduce childcare costs in the week. I work late into evenings. We have one dc.

Despite both working, one in a more professional job we are still quite skint and our holidays are camping for 3 days.

All my education and high workload and this is our quality of life? I then come on here and read other peoples situations and think i should be damn glad for what we have, which i am. I just dont understand how others cope so while i do believe cb should be capped at two dc i also believe it does need to stay.

Or alternatively cb to be paid directly to nursery as part of fees. Its the childcare that is wearing us all down.

Yes, Loletta I saw that article. I have also seen a few similar ones over the years aimed more at Dave Cameron than his wife but pretty much saying the same thing. He really is a selfish hypocritical man. Good for them that they managed to get respite when they needed it (and could probably afford to pay for it themselves), stuff everybody else who needs respite and are struggling to even provide basics due to being financially drained due to their child's disability related costs.