to refuse to let bil live with us.

[horriblesil]

I've name changed for this. Please be kind. Not too judgemental.

I have 3 children, not very little, but not teenagers either. I don't work much (I'm a dinner lady at school). Dh has a 'high powered' job in the City so I do all the caring.

My dh has a brother (age 45) who is severely mentally handicapped. He has lived at home with his parents caring for him. However, my fil died 2 months ago and now mil has had a heart attack and is unlikely to survive for much longer. She is in hospital.

In laws live the other side of the country and bil has never been here to visit us, we always go to them. Dh has asked if bil can come and live with us for a while ,whilst he sorts out care for him back on the other side of the country. This care would be state provided, not paid for by us.

The reality is that I will be expected to look after him. He will be under my feet all day as he knows nobody. My sons will need to share bedrooms so he can have his room.

But most importantly, I know that by living with us (albeit temporary) he will not be homeless and the council will not be under any pressure to provide him. We have been warned by other council areas that this is what happens as there are so few care areas.

The temporary basis could easily be 6 months, quite possible a hell of a lot more.

I have said no and dh has gone off his rocker. He said he will never turn his back on his brother and can't see him on the street.

Before we married we were living together for 5 years and I made it very clear that I would never ever have his brother living with us. This was 'a conversation' we had before we married.

My view is that if we don't do anything the council HAVE to get him some kind of care and his situation will be sorted far sooner. Also, he will get care in the area that he knows and will be able to continue going to his social groups that he has been to for years.

I think Sadit's suggestion of 19:57 - getting bil to a&e to force emergency social services action - sounds feasible.

However, in practice if he's not ill or injured they may not accept the OP's assertion that he is not safe alone. It may come to simply waiting for whatever inadequate arrangements SS provide to fail catastrophically (probably causing bil or someone else an injury of some kind) before they take this assertion seriously.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but there's an interesting article here about caring for children and adults...

Yanbu OP. I'm reading with interest as my BIL also needs help due to mental illness (less daily help than your BIL overall) and when DH and I became serious I fully considered it and told him that I wouldn't want BIL living with us long term, especially if we had DCs. Fortunately my PIL are sensible and have started making robust plans for BIL.

Yes, it is appalling that your PIL, DH and SS are all assuming that you will provide on going care, particularly when you sensibly made it clear in advance that you would not do this.

I don't know what the solution is. But I think that if BIL moves to your area he will become the lowest priority for housing in his old area. I think all other solutions are preferable to taking him out of area.

It may be that SS set him up with four times daily care and wait for this to fail before providing more. This would be awful. I would try to prevent this by giving them specific examples of why this would fail e.g. the finger biting, Times your DH has had to help him overnight.

UncertainSmile it was my situation but it was my DB, not BIL. Never an option for DB to live with us permanently but I couldn't just leave him to it (although initially I said I would) and yes its hell to get SS to pull their finger out and do what they're supposed to, they make things worse than they have to be but with serious persistence things did work out. My OH supported my decision for him to live with us initially; Fear, worry, concern, sadness all sorts of things go through the mind inc family memories of when you were all young together, and life was easy, we were all well. So I needed OH's "shoulder" no man/woman is an island. Doesn't mean he wasn't annoyed at times tho..

HelenaDove I don't see why gender has anything to do with it

I haven't anywhere judged the OP for her stance on not taking in her BIL. I made an observation re. the DH and the double bereavement/devastation thing...because thats a situation alongside his DBs situation that will require support too isn't it? so its a complicated time all round and they're a couple so discussion will be 2 way, not 1 way as some have made it seem. At a time when he probably isn't thinking straight.

I get the feeling round here that at times if you dare mention a man its deemed as being "against" the woman which is ridiculous. Im not thinking in "singular" fashion I feel sorry for both OP & her DH because its a horrendous situation all round

HorribleSIL, I've been in a similar situation where I needed to put DC ahead of my relative who was incapable of looking after herself.

SS first tried 'take her home for a few weeks whilst we find her a place'. I refused this, so they tried to ignore the situation for a few days. I went to the office and saw them in person and when that didn't work, went down the complaints procedure route and got an ombudsman reference as this was an emergency.
SS then offered her a place in the worst home in the area, at this point I appointed legal representation via legal aid on behalf of my relative providing details of suitable homes that accepted funding. After 2 weeks in hospital she was finally offered a place.

www.bristollawclinic.co.uk Is free and may be able to help

www.bristol.gov.uk/page/health-and-adult-care/complaints-or-comments-about-adult-care-services - may be able to move things along a bit if you don't get a response on Thursday.

Good Luck.

At last! I got through to social services. I called them twice this morning as they didn't call back yesterday. They said there were no spaces immediately available. I asked what they would do for bil when dh leaves on Saturday. They did not ask whether bil can come to us short term or if dh would stay longer this time - I think (hope) that this message has now sunk in.

I ended the conversation with a reminder that bil can not be left alone over night or for more than 2-3 hours throughout the day. That if they suggested this route, that I would take immediate legal action and that the policy would be called.

Social services said they are still looking at the care home/assisted living route. But the places may be quite far from where he lives now. Bil is very close to 2 of his neighbours. He sees them all the time. However, what ever home he goes to, he will be leaving his house/neighbours. This is a huge factor for bil. That is why he doesn't want to leave his home.

I will phone them back at 2.30.

• police - not policy!

Also, dh was told at hospital yesterday by someone who works in social services - not officially as they were just there visiting one of their relatives and he got chatting at the canteen area. This person said that in her area of work, many families don't want to have their disabled / ill family member living with them and there is a general opinion in social services that if the family doesn't want them, then the family shouldn't have much of a say in where and what the disabled person gets. Their view is if you don't want them, then butt out!

Clearly this is just one person's opinion in a very unofficial way. Dh was furious.

It looks like they are finally taking you seriously. Well done.

OP I am 100% behind you.

I am facing this exact situation myself in the future. Reading your posts is like hearing my own thoughts. I too have spent a decade warning my DH that I will not be his brother's carer. I too have a MIL who will not discuss the looming crisis.

Those who do not live with this worry cannot begin to empathise.

At least you've managed to speak to someone OP. That's great news. Make sure you send a follow up email recording everything that was said. Keep quoting current legislation at SS - once we got through to the right (senior) people in my DF's case, this really did seem to work.

'Bil is very close to 2 of his neighbours. He sees them all the time. However, what ever home he goes to, he will be leaving his house/neighbours. This is a huge factor for bil. That is why he doesn't want to leave his home.'

He will not be able to stay there. He will have a 25% reduction in his housing benefit since he will soon be classed as a single occupant under pension age in a 3-bed house. Even if he has an overnight carer, he will still have a 20% reduction in HB. His benefits will not be enough to cover this shortfall and he will need to move no matter what.

The council does not have enough stock to keep single people in 3-bed houses when they have so many families in need of housing.

SS knows this, probably.

This person said that in her area of work, many families don't want to have their disabled / ill family member living with them and there is a general opinion in social services that if the family doesn't want them, then the family shouldn't have much of a say in where and what the disabled person gets. Their view is if you don't want them, then butt out!

OP yes - I found this to be very true. The view that if you don't want the person to remain with you, then you've to have a say in where they're rehoused as long as their housing needs are met.. in SS view

A live-in carer may be a real possibility, then he could temporarily remain in the property. I know it's not a long term solution. Sometimes live-in care in more cost effective than placing people in specialist placements, so it's not always tricky to get this agreed. This would enable BIL to keep his support networks while a longer term plan is discussed.

Housing and adult social care in England are completely separate. The social worker's focus will be on his care needs and I would agree that, for now, this is a priority especially as BIL wants to stay at home.

However I worked in local authority homelessness for years and there were occasions when people were so desperate, they'd just leave said relative in reception room, and go off. At which point homelessness advisers had no option but to 'phone Social Services, its their remit..and SS were compelled to find emergency accommodation immediately followed by full assessment of housing needs after all relative can't be forced to take them back, and SS couldn't all go home and leave someone just sitting in reception...

Mistress Gender has plenty to do with it. Because its mostly women who end up doing the caring.

Look at what other posters have said upthread including the case where a woman was expected to come back from a life and a job in another country to look after her mum while the brother who lived nearby....it didnt even enter anyones head to ask him. This is how ingrained it is.

Mistress I know people do this and I find it inhumane that the system pushes people to such extremes. This is why the the Care Act, that came into force last week, is so important. It puts responsibilities on local authorities to ensure there are preventative services to avoid situations like leaving at risk individuals in waiting rooms. The BIL is a perfect example of how they can and should prevent this situation from spiraling out of control and affecting OP and her children.

horriblesil Like you said maybe the message is slowly sinking in. I hope so.

aFirmGrip do you think your DH takes you seriously when you tell him you wont be doing it.

OP you are doing great. I really feel for you. My dad was in a similar situation last year with a terminally ill member of his family. I am friends with a SW and she advised exactly as you have suggested. You must force SS hand. They have limited funds and they will prioritise cases, all of them heartbreaking, on the basis of how much support they can get from the family. If you step in now only when your family becomes the crisis and hence top the priority list which keeps being added to each day, will your dbil be moved. Hearing this from the mouth of a sw made me realise the predicament. Too many priorities not enough money, it really is as simple as that. you must be priority number one, the crisis situation.

Its also not about soc services lying as someone alleged up thread... Its purely if you have 20 people in absolute crisis and only 10 beds...they will do all they can to reduced this number, and will.place a lot of pressure, sometimes unreasonably on families.

From soc services pov its a complicated jigsaw. dont forget with these sort of vulnerable people its much more complex headache to sort out, than telling a fully functioning resilient adult to suck up a few weeks in a hostel until something more permanent comes up.

No news on the social services front. Took 2 more calls from 2.30 to get to speak to someone. They said that they had tried calling my dh. They had left a message on his phone. Very strongly and almost aggressively I said that they were NOT under any circumstances to call my dh and they must put everything to me.

There still is no more news on placements. I just repeated what I had said earlier and said that bil needs to have someone there overnight all night and can't be left alone for greater than 2-3 hours a day. I said he can't manage money or bills or shopping. He can wash and dress himself, he can wash up and clean the house up. However, nothing else.

I said AGAIN that if they don't get a home and they only provide care at odd times through the day, then I will call the police.

The final thing I said was to remind them that my dh is coming home on Saturday. I did drop in that he needed to come home as his 3 children were missing him, esp the child with special needs who is also registered as disabled. This was more a parting shot!

There was no talk about dh staying longer or for bil to move in with us.

I really think that this is going to go to the wire. I can envisage it being 5pm on Friday that they eventually say they have a place for him.

He is in Keynsham, which is inbetween Bristol and Bath. but I have a horrible feeling he will be placed the other side of Bath, which will mean his neighbour friends probably won't see him.

'but I have a horrible feeling he will be placed the other side of Bath, which will mean his neighbour friends probably won't see him.'

That will happen no matter what as he will soon be liable for the bedroom tax and will not be able to afford to live in a 3-bed house by himself.

I have recently been through a very similar scenario (different part of the country though).

horriblesil I would strongly recommend contacting your BIL's local Mencap office - they can offer great advice, can attend meetings (in a sort of advocate capacity) and often have good contacts within the care homes and adult social services.

It all sounds very stressful!
How's your DH's bearing up?

op remember to email them to confirm what was discussed: proof.