To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

cheby when I see someone on a crutch or with a stick I do move but to be fair I rarely see them on my commute.

My DBs FIL actually is in a wheelchair following a stroke, have traveled a few times with him on british rail or overground but tube forget it!

I was on holiday with DBs FIL and family in Barcelona a couple of years ago and the contrast between travel, street and platform lifts on metro and ease was unsurpassed but then they have a modern system compared to our antiquated tube.

But we're digressing....

Trains are quiet these days and if you are in conversation with a small child it is heard all over so personally I don't want to discuss things within the hearing of everyone. I know that makes me a wooss but too bad, I'm not an outgoing person.

I do try to be friendly towards a small person but a lengthy conversation I would find tricky likewise one with a drunk which I've had in the past

So if you have some money to spend on a meal are you seriously suggesting that you can buy 'peace', children having the audacity to be children and other adults having the audacity to have such children in your company? Guess what? Some parents have money to spend in these restaurants to- it is exceptionally entitled to believe these places are the preserve of people who are exactly like yourself!

Dido, that's an absurd suggestion- it is called 'public' transport, how incredibly 'entitled' of you.

Entitled of me and the rest of the 12 carriages then!
There is a real difference in noise levels on a rush hour train compared to a weekend train. They are much quieter. Probably because that's how we all like it!
And yes, adults who talk loudly and lengthily on their phones, or have audible music do get asked to pipe down.

Despite what I said earlier I was appalled on the National Express service I was on tonight. "Please sit towards the back of the coach with your child to avoid distraction to the driver". Then "Please make phone calls short and sweet to avoid disturbing others."
But apparently it was fine for driver and co driver to conduct loud conversation with a woman sitting on the front seat, throughout the journey. She had a voice and a laugh like a fog horn and was far noisier than the child would have been. Complaint already made to National Express but if I'd been that parent I'd be furious.

Dido when using public transport you can't expect everybody to be quiet especially for you. Work or not. That's the downside of public transport!

Goldenbear, I don't see Hillingdon objecting to children in the restaurant. She just doesn't want to have a mucky buggy at her table or to have to entertain someone else's child while she's trying to eat in peace. Completely reasonable.

I am a middle-aged mother of four. My children travelled all over with me and have eaten at all kinds of restaurants from a very early age. I never tolerated unnecessary noise/interrupting others and always made sure they were well and quietly entertained or I removed them from a situation. Maybe that's why I can't tolerate unnecessarily noisy children and disorganised parents now. If parents take their children to proper restaurants, the children need to stay in their places or be taken out of the situation. The parents need not to leave a big mess afterwards as well. If parents want respect, they need to show it for others too.

I am polite though and would offer to help with your buggy/let you in the lift first.

What a load of rubbish - I used to commute daily to Victoria from Brighton and my DH commutes to London still 3 x a week. The level of 'not giving a stuff about anyone else' was very high and included inconsiderations such as:

• stuffing face with rancid burgers and their accompanying smells on the way home.

• talking very loudly on the phone.

• yawning without covering the mouth.

• loud headphones.

• men stretching out legs under the table.

• people spreading out their work on the tables.

• monopoly of elbow space.

• the turtle backpack in your face if you had the misfortune to stand.

• not offering seats to women that are heavily pregnant.

• people not allowing others to get off before boarding.

At least children cannot be blamed for behaving as young children do, what are the excuses of the adults that don't know how to behave considerately??

It's not just about 'chatty' children though. If I'm on a train, it's actually a rare opportunity for me to put my nose in a book for an hour. I don't want to have to engage with chatty children or chatty people of ANY age. I'll smile at you/your child, but then I'll put my nose back in my book and that is the cue for you to stop talking to me. If it's a child, then it is the job of the parents to recognize that cue and distract their child and entertain them themselves.

Why is your preoccupation with your self relevant to whether you demonstrate common courtesy or is it that we are supposed to recognise that 'you' and 'you' alone, have an important job from your smug, self important demeanour?

Goldenbear you seem quite grouchy. Possibly the commuting and all those awful habits of your fellow passengers are getting to you. My post to which you object by calling me names was a tongue-in-cheek response to this post of the OP's where she says straight out that her time is more important ("precious") than other people's.
It is the assumption that people with kids have all day that is part of the problem! In fact I'm usually have less time - I'm trying to get kids to / from somewhere as quickly as poss partly because they get tired etc but also Ive got somewhere to get to by a certain time! Having kids makes your life more busy and your time more precious, not less

I was just imagining the opposite scenario, of a middle-aged woman with a very demanding schedule and an important job. Maybe I needed to flag it up as irony for some people?

I avoid small chatty children like the plague. My own were bad enough but other people's are a pita.

We have just returned from a stint in singapore but we have lived in other countries too. I'm afraid op, I'm finding the UK to be one of the most child unfriendly places ever! There is a definite attitude of 'children should be seen and not heard'. I'd go one further and add, children should NOT be seen or heard!
You have my sympathies..

having kids makes your time more precious

Nope it doesn't. Time is precious to everyone.

Whoever said when you have children your time becomes more precious has sumed it up! Entitled parents who think THEY are always more important then everyone else.....

This thread has run into directions that go far from my original post and some of that is because I don't think I made myself clear on a number of points, so here are a few clarifications:

• I am not expecting people to engage with my children
• my description of DS as chatty is not byword for screaming / shouty / loud, ok so I'm biased but he's usually good on trains and we keep him quiet with snacks, books, cbeebies on iPhone etc (however he does talk to us and that's fine!)
• we usually fold the buggy, didn't on the occasion described in the OP as DS was asleep in it but did as soon as he woke up. It's often got bags on it and a child in it when we board the train so it does take a couple of mins to sort it out and pack bags / buggy on luggage racks - other passangers often seem very intolerant of this and so I do it as quickly as I possibly can
• the journeys I make on trains are always made at off peak times / weekends, I'd never travel at rush hour with kids (unfortunately trains between london and Worcester, near where my parents live, are often quite crowded at whatever time of day we travel)
• sorry I don't think my time is more precious because having kids, I just mean it's not any less precious because i have kids - I don't like the assumption that as I have kids I have all day!
• the middle aged women thing was an observation only, it's simply what I have noticed. I made the point as it did surprise me - you'd have thought teenage boys for example may be rude but actually I've had loads of offers of help when travelling alone with kids from teenage boys!!!

Imsosorryalan - that's what I mean, it seems there's a general atmosphere that kids should not be present. I've never lived in Asia but went to thailand when DS was 2 and could not believe how helpful and friendly to him people were - I was expecting bangkok to be hard work but it was an absolute dream!! I don't want special treatment for my kids, just an acceptance of the presence of children in public places.

Bread

I really would give up

Threads on this topic do tend to go this way

I would never dream of taking a buggy on a crowded train. I have never owned a buggy- or even worse a pram.

As I'm realising, I think I will!

I can't believe how bonkers this thread is. People are so nasty and intolerant.

Last year when pregnant (very large from 12wks so quite obvious) i used to travel to and from Kent to west London about once a week/fortnight on 2 overland trains. I had a largish buggy as i also had to transport mine and ds1 luggage in the base. I always travelled off peak at the quietest times and usually there would only be about 10 people per carriage. No one ever offered to help me off the train once. I didn't expect it, but at first i got confused because as the train was coming into the station i was getting off at, people would rush to get in front of the buggy and i thought they were getting in front to help me down the large drop to the platform. I would say 'oh thanks, that's really kind' and they would look blank and then as the doors open hop off and walk away I felt like a right fool for thinking they were squeezing in front to offer help.

The most annoying was the people who stood in front of the doors on the platform when i was waiting on the train to get off, and then wouldn't step aside. This also happened when i was on crutches. They just stand there looking at you. As if it's one of life's eternal conundrums. You could almost hear this thought stream going thru their mind...'I want to get on, they want to get off, there is no room for me to get on if they don't get off, they can't get off because i am standing in front of the doors, but i want to get on, and standing here makes me nearest the train, but i still can't get on till they get off, they want to get off...'

Dad would pick me up from the station and say things like, 'how was the journey? Still i expect you got lots of help...' And i would say 'umm no actually'

To those who say get a car/drive - Lots of people can't drive (i had failed my test 4 times at this point and had lessons over 20 years) for various reasons. Public transport is there for the public to use.

To people saying keep your children quiet. Really. This is when MN becomes a parallel universe inhabited by toddlers who aren't excited by being on a train and able to be distracted by a book, hahhaaa, a book . Loads of people talk on a train journey, but children aren't allowed? Apart from holding my hand over ds1 mouth nothing will make him be quiet if he wants to chat. But then again i always timed the journeys for his nap time so no one would have to be annoyed by him, but oh wait, that's wrong too because i am an entitled parent who prioritise his nap and don't put the buggy down. So what should i do? get him out and let him chatter or walk up and down the aisle (or not let him and then have an almighty kicking, screaming, face scratching, hair pulling tantrum for the entire duration of the journey)? Or let him sleep and not put the buggy down?

DH worked away a lot and i was really struggling alone with ds1 and a hard pregnancy. The only support i got was seeing my parents for a few nights a fortnight and the only way to get there was the train.

So I am giving up with responding but have to show sympathy with Mrs koala, that sounds shit but unfortunately familiar in terms of the door blocking etc.

Mine are really noisy and excited on the train.

It's public transport. If you don't like it, drive.

Dido when using public transport you can't expect everybody to be quiet especially for you.

But it's not just for me is it? It's for the 99.9% of people on the train.

Ah well, carry on....

'It's public transport. If you don't like it, drive'

Charming. 'Public' transport means that you are sharing the space with other people, so its good manners to be as discreet as possible re noise and smells and other people's space. That includes not allowing your children to make a racket just because they are excited and generally not behaving as if you are in your own home.

'It's for the 99.9% of people on the train.'

This shouldn't really need explaining, should it?