To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

Well said demented - exactly my feelings. I am a 'handmaid' no more!

This thread is fucking mental - is everyone on it drunk?

Trying to choose between the most "helpful" comment

• buy a car!
• put your baby in a sling! (Yeah i used to think that when I had one skinny 8 month old)
• never travel on public transport if you have a baby
• put your toddler on a scooter for your tube journey to a mainline station!
• teach your toddler not to babble or talk to strangers

Not to mention the 50% of people who didn't read the OP properly and have opined on their experience of London transport - thus completely missing the point - still any excuse to get some London bashing in eh?

That said OP you were doing yourself no favours with your rude comments about middle aged women - what UpTheChimney said was absolutely spot on. Also some of us middle aged women have our own babies to wrangle.

Also it doesn't make you special or worthy of existence to have reproduced.

I've travelled all over Europe on public transport with and without a baby or two, sometimes with a buggy, sometimes without and generally it's no big deal as long as you plan ahead and accept there will be some stress. 90% of passengers are either lovely or oblivious. 10% are arseholes. Smartphones and tablets pre loaded with games or CBeebies are your friend. Along with lots of snacks.

Also OP, I can 100% guarantee that you will feel the same when your little darlings are grown up.

Why should a parent not teach a toddler how they should be behaving in a shared public space? Quietly and with respect to others using the same public space

My guess is these untrained toddlers grow-up to become shrieking school kids, teenagers with loud music, and then adults babbling incessantly on their mobile phones.

I suspect the tutting is because passengers have had previous bad experiences with uncontrolled/controllable children. Yes, I am one of those middle-aged woman who cringe when I see pushy passengers with noisy children approaching.

London is quite a fast pace, especially in rush hour(s) and people don't necessarily have the time to be held behind you or help you with a buggy. If they rush off to the lifts then that's better really as they're out of your way and gone by the time you get there.

Making sweeping generalisations about middle-aged women is stupid, quite frankly, and has probably diverted your thread.

As a parent myself, I find that there are quite a few other parents who are only concerned for THEIR children, nobody else's, they get quite up in arms if they feel that their own children are slighted or disadvantaged or not noticed in any way... whilst blithely being guilty of the same selfish behaviour themselves, in favour of THEIR children.

Tondelayo... This thread isn't 'London-bashing' but really, your comment... 'Also, it doesn't make you special or worthy of existence to have reproduced'. That's really quite obnoxious.

Apologies Lying my comment should have said "it doesn't make you special or MORE worthy of existence to have reproduced*

OP... are you and your husband travelling together? Two adults, two children? If you dodge rush hour and busy times, wherever you're travelling from/to, it should be manageable.

It's ok,Tondelayo, I know what you meant actually and I do agree with it. Everybody has the right to be and I think the OP is unreasonable but probably just wanting a rant.

On a bus this morning I've encountered a woman with a child in a buggy who kept trying to talk to her and became ever louder while the mother stared at her phone and told the child to shut up as well as parents who sat on opposite sides of a quiet bus and allowed their children to shout at each other, swap seats every few minutes and share a large bag of crisps and drop most of them on the floor.
Some parents just have no interest in encouraging appropriate behaviour in shared spaces and it's unsurprising that other passengers get fed up of it.

Yes there is no issue with a toddler chatting. But I have never seen middle aged women tutting at a toddler chatting on a train. I have seen people tutting when a child is very loud and noisy and the parents seem oblivious to it.

I'm really looking forward to my 3 hour train journey with a 6 year old, a one year old, two suitcases and a buggy tomorrow

Bloody hell, OP. I've now made a decision never to post before reading the WHOLE thread again. You don't know why people without children are posting here? Are you very new or do you just blurt out rude comments like that generally?

I haven't experienced the problems that you have; maybe it's because I don't use public transport very often, trains left frequently with the kids but, I help people with buggies and their bags if they want help and I get the same in return. I treat everybody - with or without kids - as people who have equal rights to me. I smile, don't look sour or disapproving because I'm not. I generally get back an echo.

I have a thought for you... perhaps there is a reason why you are meeting - and recognising - so many arseholes? Just saying.

Now apologising to Tondelayo.

SuperFlyHigh YADBU for using the lift as an able bodied person simply because the stairs are 'busy', especially at Clapham Junction! It's Clapham Junction, its always bloody busy.

I commuted through CJ for years, both with a broken leg (before DC) and then later with a buggy. You are the kind of person who repeatedly made me miss trains and be late home (or for work) with my overtired LO (which bothers other passengers btw because she's tired and crying instead of home by the time she gets tired) or stand on one leg, balanced on crutches in significant pain while I waited for 2/3 lifts to go by full of able bodied people who couldn't be bothered to use the stairs.

OP you're right about the tube, people are much more helpful on there than the trains, no idea why. I once had to travel from zn1 to zn3, with a buggy and bags, at 4.45 on a Friday (between two extremely busy stations, escalators only at one end, part lift part stairs at the other).

I was absolutely terrified but had no alternative. As it happened, people couldn't have been nicer. Bags carried down escalator so I could concentrate on buggy, buggy carried up the stairs, people holding others back so we didnt get crushed on the platform, buggy lifted into the tube for me and various passengers pulling faces for DD to make her laugh or talking to her.
Faith in humanity restored. Until I next had to take a train via Clapham junction.

I do think that everyone is caught up in their own world on the trains, but at least one benefit of really busy trains is that there are usually one or two people who offer to help if you need it. The lift thing is annoying - I'm looking forward to not having a buggy so we can spend seconds walking up the stairs rather than waiting ages for a lift. We also always make a special effort to try to squeeze everyone in the lift, but I have noticed that other people don't seem to care (others with and without buggies).

I try to be considerate towards other travellers by limiting the amount of stuff we take, folding the buggy when space is tight, not getting out noisy toys and trying hard to keep a crying child quiet. I don't really care if other people hate the children, that's their problem just as long as we're being reasonable. I have been lucky that people have always been very helpful and friendly, both in London and elsewhere.

Camelfinger, you have a lovely attitude and I'm sure that that is reflected in how others treat you while travelling on public transportation.

Cheby I use the lift occasionally note the word occasionally!

Of course I can use it as others do, if you know clapham junction stairs you'll know that often people come down while the rest of us come up.

And I've never seen a sign saying able bodied people shouldn't use the lifts!

People are more helpful on the tube because if you do miss it or can't get on its only another minute or two til the next train so you never run late. However on an overland train if you miss it or can't get on because someone can't be bothered to fold up a pushchair and its busy as fuck not being able to get on means anywhere from 30-60 min wait for the next one.

London Bridge with its current works is horrendous at times. I'm not saying people with kids shouldn't travel during rush hour but if you are don't take a big arse pushchair with you and don't fold it up so it takes up room when other people can get on. It happened 3 times in a week where I couldn't get on the train and had to wait 30 mins for the next one because a pushchair was left by the doors taking up space when at least 2-3 people could get into that space.

Sorry my heart bleeds for you cheby so I 'made' you miss your train and 'made' you late home or to work because you couldn't share (note the word share) a lift with others!

Also I only used lifts in the morning. If ever.

Next time I dare to use the lift I'll tell all the able bodied people to get out with me as "we're lazy" and "shouldn't use the lift".

untrained toddlers

Really? We're past the days children should be seen and not heard.

I've heard lots of people describe their children as "chatty" when the reality is, they are screechy and loud in an unpleasant way. I call this 'parent hearing'. I know I have listened to my children singing and imagined wiping tears away whilst sitting in the front row of Sydney Opera House. Other people do not hear the same!

OP -You are annoyed because people are running past you to get a train
yabu Im afraid, if you have DC there are lots of occasions when having DC slows you down.
Not overly keen on the middle age woman comments either.

Try it with a wheelchair, OP. Ten times worse.

I'm confused about why running in front of a buggy is a bad thing. If someone is going slower than you in a public place of course you overtake them! As long as you're not shoving them out of the way in the process obviously. As for thinking people are being miserable because they don't interact with small children - that's the definition of that mumsnet fave, being entitled. If you go on busy public transport then you are going to get knocked and jostled. Worrying about a suitcase getting shoved an inch or two in one direction or another is madness! Especially when you have been shoving it yourself as well. It's never occurred to me to get offended about jostling on public transport and given that london is not likely to get any less hectic anytime soon, it seems like a massive waste of energy.

The OP did 'not' say her child was chatting to a stranger, the child was chatting to her but people can't seem to comprehend that 3 year olds talk to their parents and some parents are keen on their children enough to listen!