To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

Golden I don't know if that comment was at me but I wasn't saying that her son was chatting to a stranger, just passing comment on "chatty children". I do have one by the way, so I'm not being pious.

I am a middle aged harridan who has had/still have children of mine which is precisely the reason I dont want to have to engage with any one else's when I've been looking forward to peace and quiet on a train, or anywhere else. Been there, done it, dont want to do it with yours.

Hear, hear!

The more I read the OP's posts, the more entitled she seems to me. Yes, we should all extend courtesy to others and that includes you OP

You are not special just because you've reproduced, to anyone other than your family & friends, that is, but you seem to think you are, and that everyone should treat you as if you are golden. Well, you know, I'll come out & say it: I do have an important job, I work long hours, and I travel quite a bit on trains. I have a lot of work to get done, even on a train journey. And sometimes I'm cutting it fine between meetings, so yes, I'm rushing to get the next train, or to make a quick change at Reading, or Crew, or New street.

So excuse me for getting on with my life.

But then I think, you'll learn ... come back in 25 years time and tell us about how middle-aged women are treated. You'll be one then. See how it feels.

Another middle-aged harridan here. Yes, I'm in my own world on a train. I put on my headphones and read a book in peace.

YANBU it's disgraceful behaviors by others and unfortunately it seems to be rife everywhere now.

Some people seem to get the Rage when they see a Pushchair or a Wheelchair.It's not the way myself or my DH behave and neither do any of our 5DC thankfully.They'll raise they're children the way we've raised them to be polite and to help others.I really hope things start changing I can't remember people being so self centered and rude when I was growing up.

saw two seats were free but had bags on - asked couple next to these seats if seats were free and if so could they move bag

Wrong approach.

I'm going to sit there, would you move your bag please

and MEAN IT. They will.

This thread is ridiculous.

You cannot 'train' a toddler. You also can't stop a toddler from talking either. I've never heard so much nonsense.

I live in London with my extremely lively 2.5yr old DS. Also do a 2 hour train journey out of town every couple of months. I find it very stressful and do get anxious about other passengers and do my best to keep DS occupied. However, he's a child. He does make noise. He does wriggle. I provide snacks and entertain him to keep chatting and wriggling to a minimum - but otherwise...it's life..

Tolerance is needed I feel! I certainly don't think I'm anymore special than anyone else on the train, but you can't expect a child to be what they are just programmed to be at that age!

And hillingdon. My goodness. Seriously? The family have got the same equal right to be at Westfield as you. Children make noise and run about. That's what children do.

I don't often take the train with my DC, but I definitely find that whenever out and about walking with a pushchair in a city, people constantly push past me to get in front. I walk at a normal quick pace when it's just me and a dc in pushchair- I'm not slow- and often I'm slowed down by someone else in front of me- then someone pushes in front of me like I'm the problem for walking too slowly.

I think people see pushchair and think 'in my way, too slow' automatically. I can imagine this would be even more the case for people trying to board trains.

Milkandmarmite You are mostly right and Hillingdon is mostly wrong but the bloke in Westfield had no business trying to unload his buggy on her table.

Give me a chatty todler over a loud look at me parent any day.

The jostling, passing, busyness, blanking, seat hogging, oversized bag encrochment and tutting happens to everybody on any busy train in any area of the country to anybody - it not being in the presence of a small person that is causing it.

There are lots of people who are busy for a variety of reasons who catch trains. Not everybody has time to notice or indeed help a person with a pram. Most commuters have lost the will to live by the time they get on the train. Being in the presence of a child or parent is unlikely change that.

The ones who bring my inner grievous bodily harmer bubbling dangerously near to the surface are the ones who don't grasp that the instructions on the escalator to STAND ON THE RIGHT mean them too. Fine if you have a buggy, in which case you will find me taking one end of it to help you on the stairs if there are any, but a child out of a buggy can stand behind you going down or ahead of you going up and leave the left-hand lane for the walkers.

SuperFlyHigh I'm very happy to squish in a lift alongside everyone else. But if 20 able bodied people zip off in front of me as I struggled along on crutches and fill up the first 2/3 lifts, then there's not much I can do about it.

You 'occasionally' use the lifts. So if the hundreds of thousands of people using CJ everyday occasionally use the lifts, that fills up the bloody lifts so those who have no choice are forced to wait.

As another poster said, try managing in a wheelchair. I haven't had to, crutches were bad enough, but I have seen countless people running round wheelchair passengers to get in the lift first.

I do sympathise milk, but seriously if your extremely lively 2.5 year is not able to sit relatively quietly most of the journey, you do need to prevent himfrom infringing on other people's journeys. Walking up the train or spending time with him in the space between the 2 carriages.

Yes I know it's hard work, but you, as well as your child need to learn to respect other people's needs.

I am disabled, but don't look it. I can't walk up lots of stairs. I often get dirty looks from parents with prams or pushchairs when I use lifts.

The family have got the same equal right to be at Westfield as you. Children make noise and run about. That's what children do

Not in sit-down restaurants or cafés. Oh no, that's one place where they should NEVER be running about and making more noise than anyone else. And Hillingdon was talking about sitting in a restaurant with a meal & a glass of wine, and having her table space comandeered by a rude person.

Again, I think it's partly that middle-aged women, on their own, are not considered fully people, but are expected to suit everyone else's convenience eg the OP of this thread.

Or, indeed, considered convenient babysitters for parents that need to relax. FFS. It is the complete antisocial and entitled behaviour of some parents that lead to people - whether parents or not - not wanting to be around young children on public transport.

Actually, I think the entitled father shoving his scummy buggy opposite me and his view that his young child can start to annoy me is exactly the point!

A sit down restaurant (Jamie Oliver's) is not the place to allow kids to annoy others and with hot food and drinks around irresponsible of the parent imho.

It's not a playground and complete strangers should not be responsible for giving YOU a break!

^I do sympathise milk, but seriously if your extremely lively 2.5 year is not able to sit relatively quietly most of the journey, you do need to prevent himfrom infringing on other people's journeys. Walking up the train or spending time with him in the space between the 2 carriages.

Yes I know it's hard work, but you, as well as your child need to learn to respect other people's needs.^

Absolutely. I agree with this. It's all about respecting each other. If he's being a right old pain we go and 'explore' - if he's just excited to see a cow out the window - I would hope other passengers could tolerate it.

Sorry - meant to quote you silver..

Sorry, Hillingdon, I do think I inadvertently lumped you into the awful middle-aged women group there .

Who said I was middle aged! (Actually I am!)

UptheChimney, surely you're being hypocritical- you've just accused the OP of thinking she's 'special' despite none of her posts indicating this and yet you go on to tell us what an 'important' job you have? Why is your preoccupation with your self relevant to whether you demonstrate common courtesy or is it that we are supposed to recognise that 'you' and 'you' alone, have an important job from your smug, self important demeanour?

Ah a proper restaurant - I was picturing the food hall. Well, I do take my DS to restaurants and would always intervene if he was interrupting someone else's peace. But I couldn't promise that he wouldn't do it in the first place. Does that mean I wouldn't ever go out to eat? No... I'd still like to go out. I'd apologise profusely and keep him occupied as best as could. But like I said earlier, children - can't make them adult. Hopefully just keep their mischief to their own table!!

Suddenly no tutting from me then milk. Happy to chat about cows to a well-managed 2.5 year old

*certainly NOT suddenly!

I commute to London on a "big train" daily and in common with the huge majority of other commuters, just want peace and quiet and no hassle on the train. After a 12 hour day that's not unreasonable?
Best advice would be to travel outside peak times or be prepared to face the angry looks of the knackered working public!