AIBU to find it disgusting that gypsies have taken over a school playground

[Adizzylass2014]

whilst attending my best friends wedding today in a little village I was horrified to see that gypsies had taken over the school playground. There was rubbish all over the floor, children and dogs running all over the place and scantily clad women puffing away.
why a school playground, these people have no morals. The poor caretaker is going to have his work cut out for him as there was at least 15 caravans!

steak ? steal

It is a serious problem. Often the men in the family do not see any particular point in constructing a toilet--they don't give a damn about squatting down and leaving a walnut whip behind a hedge. So outdoor defecation sometimes persists even when families do have the economic means to do otherwise.

So the women of the family wind up doing things like getting up in the middle of the night together and creeping around in the dark trying to find a discreet spot, sometimes falling in the dark and getting injured, getting bitten by snakes or dogs, getting raped.

The feces lying around pollute water supplies and attract swarms of flies which get onto food. It is a serious health problem.

That was in reply to ArcheryAnne re open defecation in developing countries.

When the irish travellers arrive around here there is always much worrying by dog owners about their dogs being stolen but don't know anything about that. They did have dogs, which I would have thought went against the inside of the caravans being spotless thing TBH.

I don't think I will ever understand the pooing on the path thing. It can't even be nice for them, trying not to walk in others poo while trying to find an unsoiled spot, in the dark and the rain. A chemical loo in the van would be a nicer option wouldn't it.
The towpath in question is also overlooked by a row of houses at the other side of the canal, so privacy doesn't seem that important either.

I would just like to say as an Irish Traveller that I have never ever ever shit in a bush!

I'd also like to add that my family and all other families I have ever encountered on sites, have always used the toilet inside their caravan, despite what you may see on 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding'

I'm really saddened to see that some posters who were inititially very vocal about the intolerance on this thread have now changed the way they're posting and seem to be insinuating that most of the problems and awful behaviour people have experienced or witnessed are probably down to Irish Travellers.

All I can say Flo is that the particular travellers that pitch up around here have Irish number plates and behave in the way I have described regarding their toilet habits. So I guess they are a sub section, the same ones that other posters have had visit their area too.

Floanna (and indeed any other traveller on this thread) - since there are problems with poo in some places, which does fuel the intolerance and racism that already exists against travellers (of all sorts), what are relationships like between the travellers who don't do this and those that do? And what can non-travellers do to help this kind of problem not to happen, bearing in mind most of us know sod-all about travellers, and also don't really understand the differences between the various groups?

I was wondering where the OP of this thread has got to? They don't seem that interested. I wonder if they got the replies they were after?

twosides I was on board all the way until the poo apologist stance and utter nonsense about dog comparisons.

Open public sewers were thankfully left behind, along with cholera, a long time ago.

If someone can travel around with all their worldly possessions, and own tools to lay patios and drives, they can ruddy well own a shovel and dig a latrine.

Archery I appreciate your question but I honestly have never come accross any other travelling family who behave that way so there is no 'relationship' to speak of. My family have always stayed on legal sites and have always taken extreme pride in their cleanliness.

I appreciate that lots and lots of people have experienced travellers behaving in this totally unacceptable way and I don't resent anybody acknowledging this problem exists.
But, I am also aware that lots and lots of people will unknowingly (as we don't wear identification) have come across different types of travellers who don't behave this way, many times throughout their lives.

I think any traveller who behaves in the way some PPs have experienced should be ashamed of themselves but if a person uses their experience of the poor behaviour to 'fuel racism' then they should be equally ashamed of themselves.

Floanna - I don't think any of the recent posts have been racist, and certainly haven't damned all travelers. But clearly people (including myself) have had bad experiences with travelers of all backgrounds. I worked with some brilliant Irish travelers years ago, helping on a site just outside of Cambridge.

I know that the large unofficial encampment we had trouble with was definitely Irish travelers, I also know that that in no way means that all Irish travellers are guilty of such things.

Floanna I suppose I was thinking of - well, I don't think I've ever met Peter Tatchell in person, for example, but if I've yelled "DON'T BE ON MY SIDE!" about something I've heard he's done once, then I've yelled it a million times! Because he's a Big Gay Spokesperson, and people who don't know anything about LGBT politics take his word as representing all of us when he really, really doesn't! I know full well how very aggravating it can be when people ascribe the actions of a few people to a wider group, but what it means for me is that I do often have to have an opinion about what Peter Tatchell says, if only to protect myself.

This isn't an exact analogy, and I suppose I could think of others, but you know what I mean.

Floanna84 The people who illegally camped and behaved in our very antisocial ways in my village were Irish Travellers but that doesn't mean that I think all Irish Travellers are like that, it's good to have your voice on this thread. I have wondered whether by nature of the fact they travel a smallish groups of very difficult people could conceivably have a very negative impact in a great number of communities. Who knows it could well be the very same group that several different posters on this thread are describing, I can't imagine that those travellers who moved off our village playing fields after a few weeks leaving such disgusting mess in their wake moved onto the next place and behaved with consideration.

Floanna it's not my experience of Irish travellers that they shit in bushes so I hope my post didn't read like that.

My point was that it's one sub-section of travellers. It's not at all indicative of the majority of travellers. But I wouldn't be able to label that sub-section, and I wouldn't want to because that just perpetuates this entire problem of intolerance.

Of the groups I've worked with: showpeople; Romany; gypsies and Irish travellers: none of them would exhibit the behaviours that are being criticised on this thread.

I'm also finding it quite depressing that despite the numerous links to research, etc, the overwhelming feeling is still one of how can we solve this problem for the settled community. There's little will to actually address the issues that create some of these problems like the decimation of sites for travelling communities; the almost impossibility of securing planning consent. It's blatantly obvious that a lot of people don't want travellers beside them but I'm still not sure where they're supposed to go? Because blanket bigotry means all travellers are being treated as though they're anti-social, and really that's not been my experience of the travelling communities.

Because blanket bigotry means all travellers are being treated as though they're anti-social, and really that's not been my experience of the travelling communities

But Kate, a lot of people have given their experiences which have been negative - surely you can understand why there would be wariness. I am not a bigot, but have had 3 experiences which have been negative, one of which had a huge impact on my life.

I'm also finding it quite depressing that despite the numerous links to research, etc, the overwhelming feeling is still one of how can we solve this problem for the settled community. There's little will to actually address the issues that create some of these problems like the decimation of sites for travelling communities; the almost impossibility of securing planning consent.

Actually this thread has had a number of people, myself included, who wonder what can be done to benefit both settled communities and travelers. There are approx 14,000 legal sites in the country (is that right?), and as far as I know there isn't big problems with these sites - the problems arise from illegal encampments and stopover sites where people park up for a few days/weeks whilst travelling. I understand that travelers want to/must travel - that being the case how can temporary stopping sites be built so that people don't end up parking up illegally on park land/school fields/sports fields and potentially leaving damage and mess.

I am bound to come at it from my personal viewpoint - ie someone who is lives in settled acommodation, it is unfair to to accuse people of bigotry when they are trying to ask fair questions and have a fair discussion, despite having had some pretty negative experiences.

Because blanket bigotry means all travellers are being treated as though they're anti-social.

Are they? Who by?

I certainly consider anybody who forces entry into a school sports field to be antisocial, and also anyone who shits on a footpath, sports field or the banks of a stream. I have no particular opinion on people who don't.

Will you tell me I am wrong?

Sorry Hazyjane, just to explain, I don't think any of the recent posts were racist either, I was referring to something Archery was asking me.

I have had many discussions with people who seem to think that 'Irish Travellers' are the group more often than not responsible for the behaviours mentioned and I think it's important to point out that this isn't always the case.

Archery I completely understand, I can't tell you how many times I have nearly thrown something at the TV whilst watching MBFGW (I know I shouldn't watch it but I can't help it) please know that it really isn't a true representation of travellers as a community, rather a small group, I suppose a bit like Jeremy Kyle.

Kate, not at all, it was the tone of some other posts that got me a little defensive and I just wanted to point out that whilst it is important to differentiate between different groups of travelling people and their heritage, there has historically always been prejudiced attitudes within some groups of the travelling community towards other groups of travellers and I think it's important not to perpetuate that.

I have just had a chat with my sister who works with two different 'types' of travellers on two different sites and she told me that they definitely do experience some of the problems mentioned with some families in both groups. I asked her if she could explain what the differences were between the trouble causers and the families who follow the rules and she said it's very difficult to explain but basically it's like all walks of life, some families are bought up differently with no respect for authority/rules/laws and different social norms and others are bought up to respect those rules.

I'm sorry I can't explain why the 'baduns' behave the way they do but honestly, hand on my heart, my family (which is bloody huge) and the other families I know would never ever behave the way they do on MBFGW or the way some travellers have behaved towards people on this thread.

I would just like to emphasize that only a small minority of Travellers leave human waste behind - and it tends to be the very large encampments. Most encampments are one to four caravans and usually inconspicuous.

Regarding human waste and Travellers and large encampments there wasn't an easy answer. We tried hiring portaloos but they were vandalized by members of the public who viewed the Travellers as getting privileges and being encouraged to camp illegally - as well as being too expensive to hire routinely.

Even talking to Travellers about human waste was also complicated because they have huge taboos about talking about bodily functions to the extent that a Traveller woman might refer to something gynaecological very obliquely as a problem 'with the top of my legs'. When I spoke with them there was huge embarrassment and that if there was waste it was certainly not them and someone else - and on a field where there is over sixty caravans and around six people in every caravan there probably was only a small minority leaving that human waste.

Knowing this we couldn't hand out clinical waste bags and say bag it and bin it - they would have taken huge offense and perceived it as de-humanising them. And the majority would have been using local facilities in shopping or leisure centers to wash and toilet.

I don't want to be a poo apologist - it is horrible and I went out with the cleansing team who came out after - and had to get regular hepatitis jabs to protect me. But there isn't an easy answer - perhaps more legal transit sites - but there isn't a simple answer.

One of the best things to come from this thread, for me (who has lived with and therefore is not surprised by the ignorance and prejudice shown in some of the posts) is the number of Gypsy and Irish Traveller women who are participating and the number of people genuinely wanting to know more about the communities. Understanding can only improve things and who knows, in the distant future, when a Travelling family apply for planning permission in a village, there will be fewer pitchforks brandished.

IMHO, the OP should be ashamed of herself, she started a benefit bashing thread yesterday to go with this traveller/gypsy bashing thread. All guaranteed to bring out the worst in people.

When I was young (1970's). Romanies in horse drawn carriages used to come (every two or three years) and camp on our school field. The headmaster used to let them onto the school field. In return, they used to build a camp fire, explain how they used to cook hedgehogs, and show the inside of their caravans. It was brilliant.

There is a very simple answer to not leaving shit behind.

Bag it up and bin it.

There ^^

Oh! Stop with the shit! Get over the shit! Fucking hell, there are thousands of Gypsies and Irish Travellers in this country without places to stop and be at peace! Thousands perched on the edge of their family's places, no where to call their own. Thousands who regret the loss of their traditions and the right to travel. I thought the thread had got past it!

Helpmekeepstrong,, sorry that it seems so trivial to you. For my dh dealing with shit was a big problem.
Along with the aggression, stealing, vandalism and break in (and yes I am aware that this is a minority, but it was our experience)