AIBU to find it disgusting that gypsies have taken over a school playground

[Adizzylass2014]

whilst attending my best friends wedding today in a little village I was horrified to see that gypsies had taken over the school playground. There was rubbish all over the floor, children and dogs running all over the place and scantily clad women puffing away.
why a school playground, these people have no morals. The poor caretaker is going to have his work cut out for him as there was at least 15 caravans!

In the 3 occasions I mentioned

group 1 - used the turnstile of the football ground they parked in as a place to either go to the toilet or empty waste.

group 2 - left piles of carriers filled with waste around the edges of the park This was a big set up - occupying a large park which had put in many measures to prevent travelers. There was a legal site nearby, but every year they would return. On one memorable occasion the shit was left in our post box, this was probably preferable to the used condoms that were left in there the rest of the time.

group 3 - bin bags of waste left on sports field, some spilling out, stuff in hedges, bits of toilet paper nappies.

I'm sorry, but I think with all the above situations, it would have been possible to avoid leaving the mess they did.

I don't think it's unique to travelers. You see the same with squatters, some music festivals, parties where things get out of hand, etc. People often misbehave when they don't consider themselves at home and don't think they will suffer the consequences.

Yes but after a festival the organisers will arrange a clean up. They may 'misbehave' when they don't consider themselves at home, but surely it is their home, albeit temporarily, and even if it isn't it is someone's park, sportsfield, playground etc.

It's an inoffensive turn of phrase. I am of Welsh extraction.

I have lived next door to Travellers and they were lovely- people generally pass on negative stories more than positive stories as they make more of an impact on the teller's life.
Someone has probably been nice to you who is a Traveller- they don't always advertise themselves in the way the media or anecdote has it.
I have worked with lovely respectful Traveller children and arrogant middle class children- I would not dream of drawing conclusions from this though as it is an anecdote based on personal experience. I have seen mess from student houses, Traveller's sites and working people's homes. People are people. Disgusted by some of the attitudes on this thread.

cyber, as I said, I worked with and for gypsy families and have met lovely travellers.

That doesn't mean that there aren't sometimes huge problems with the situation of a large group of people camping up in unauthorised places. It is pretty insulting to imply that anyone who has had problems with this and then discusses it is some sort of despicable idiot.

people generally pass on negative stories more than positive stories as they make more of an impact on the teller's life.

Well to be honest, in the context of this thread, yes, the experience of having to move out of our home and dh to leave his job, did have quite an impact!

Fifi, I don't know why you keep referring to emptying out chemical closets in a hurry because you are being evicted. Read my post again.

I think one problem that arises when talking about Gypsies and Travellers is that many people assume we are
all one ethnic group. We are not, secondedly many Gypsies refer to themselves as Travellers because nearly always, if someone says something derogatory they used the word Gyspy, like its a dirty word.

I can only speak from my experience and it's not a generalisation but, as a Romany, from as early as I can remember my elders always prided themselves and instilled massively high level of cleanliness. Everywhere. No matter who's ground we were on. If our family left a mess, the farmer would not have us back. Granny travelled because she had to, some Gypsies and Travellers pitch up for a break, a holiday, they don't give a shit about the reputation that once counted for something and meant work or not. That's just mhe.

Disgusted by some of the attitudes on this thread

Cyberfairy - if a group of people pitched up in a school playground, what do you think the chances are of the playground being left in a decent state for the children when they leave?

Personally - I think it's very very low. What do you think?

I have read it piglet, some people know when they are being moved others are moved on without notice in the dead of the night, i am just saying in some cases it might not be the travelers shitting in bushes for the sake of it, they may be emptying their toilets as on the local green, if evicted in the middle of the night, which seems to happen a lot there are no facilities to empty say 5 caravan toilets, there are no facilities like at a legal site. Sanitry towels and poo could be emptied in bushes from toilets due to their being no facilities to tip the waste out, another argument for local site,s. Unfortunately no one wants a legal, council ran site near them as they have heard so many stories like the travelers are disgusting they shit all over the field

" in some cases it might not be the travelers shitting in bushes for the sake of it"

As you say. In some cases it might not.

Fifi's you may be right on some occasions it may be that they are evicted in the middle of the night. If this is the situation I don't understand why discussions weren't being had between the people camped up and those doing the evicting about suitable ways of disposing of waste. Unfortunately, on the occasions in my post, it was not the situation.

nor mine.

Piglet, i know i said that a few posts back

i have no idea re the poo, im just offering an explanation, im sure theres 100 of other things that come with living in a caravan and not having anywhere to park up, you could argue for and against all night, i am in favor of legal council run sites like in my town or even sites ran by travelers with a nominate caretaker maybe. History tells us the sites are rejected over and over because no one want's them near them probably because the rumors have got there before them. some might be true some not

Fifi, given that in general, settled people pay for the cost of the land upon which they're settled (and the ancillary infrastructure e.g. sanitation)- who should pay the cost for traveller's "proper sites with proper facilities"?

I always thought the shit in the bushes was due to caravans being kept incredibly clean and therefore travellers try to avoid adulterating the interior by using the toilet - they would rather go outside in the bushes. Same with leaving rubbish outdoors - they do not want rubbish inside the caravan as they like to keep the caravan as clean as possible.

Is that correct?

They pay council tax and rent and in some cases can buy the land themselves. People pay for the large clean up operations over and over again as long as they are not allowed to stay near them. Dale farm, according to google cost 7M to get rid of and clean up and probably included finding another site, the cost of upgrading and creating more legal pitches across the NE to meet the need identified was apparently 4M. I personally would rather see money spend on legal council ran site's which in time will pay for themselves and are permanent so in the long run will stop the problem of illegal encampments. What do you suggest to solve the problem?

*spent, excuse my typing

puzzledandpissedoff in answer to your plea for good experiences with "obvious" Travellers/Gypsies...

15 years ago my DCs primary school was the local designated school for Traveller children of families staying at the camp up the road from us. Most of them were lovely kids, my DD's best friend was a Traveller child, DD went to hers for tea and to play, the place was spotless and her mother was friendly and civil, just as you'd expect your DC's friends parents to be, Traveller or no. One of the mothers was a gobshite, and so were her kids, but given that the other Travellers avoided her as well, I suspect she wasn't a gobshite because she was a Traveller, it was because she was a gobshite and a crap mother.

More recently, Gypsies would camp every year on the verges of the village I lived in, generally for the same weeks at the end of May, beginning of June. Kept themselves to themselves, but when they left, the only sign of their having been there was a single black bag of rubbish, which the council collected. No vandalism, no excrement, nappies or sanpro.

On the other hand, I've seen places where Travellers have stayed for a couple of nights left like a bombsite. I tend to the view that it's probably some families/groups don't care or even get a bit of a buzz about being the antisocial ones, but it's only some, not all.

So, in my contacts with Travellers/Gypsies, good experiences have tended to outweigh the bad. I don't think it's appropriate to suggest that my experience is anything other than my experience.

I don't know fifi, the school had to pay for the clear up after the most recent incident (I think it was about £5000).

Having a legal site nearby probably wouldn't have made much difference, because this group were travelling to a large fair. The group were just camped up temporarily whilst on route.

I believe they had camped up on the common in a previous year, but due to problems, and mess left, the council put up barriers to prevent travelers pitching up again.

I don't know if it would be possible to negotiate for a space to camp up whilst on route, but this is difficult if in previous years there has been trouble or mess.

I have been following the thread and managed to read the majority of it, but I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned, part of the reason they don't use the toilets in the caravans is actually because it's a big health hazard. When I was living in a caravan with my partner and three children we ALL were regularly struck Ill with sickness bugs- which were agony. I know it's no excuse, but if you put yourself if their shoes, would you rather risk your and your families health, or just try to be rid of the waste as quickly as possible?! I'm probably going to be hounded for this, but I know how bad it is

Well if their lifestyle is only conducive to shitting in bushes in public places lest they get struck by some lurgy then perhaps they need to rethink the feasibility of their lifestyle and how it works in the modern world. Why should it be everyone else's responsibility to run around making special concessions for them when the rest of us have to fit in with what works for the socially responsible, tax paying majority?

"part of the reason they don't use the toilets in the caravans is actually because it's a big health hazard."

You think a modern chemical closet in a living van is more of a health hazard than shitting on a footpath or on a sports field?

I don't see how pooing on the canal towpath and leaving the toilet paper to protect the family's health works. How about the people that live there's health, the ones that used to be able to walk down the path?
Masses of human poo on a public footpath=massive health hazard to all.

Getting rid of as quickly as possible should not mean chucking it all around surely?