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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to find it disgusting that gypsies have taken over a school playground

808 replies

Adizzylass2014 · 04/04/2015 22:17

whilst attending my best friends wedding today in a little village I was horrified to see that gypsies had taken over the school playground. There was rubbish all over the floor, children and dogs running all over the place and scantily clad women puffing away.
why a school playground, these people have no morals. The poor caretaker is going to have his work cut out for him as there was at least 15 caravans! Angry

OP posts:
Bowlersarm · 08/04/2015 19:43

twosides you must have thought long and hard about posting, but thank you for doing so.

I appreciate the travellers viewpoint. It's very archaic though. And very much 'them and us'. Almost not compatable, although not a great thing to say.

twosides · 08/04/2015 20:08

Worra it is the attitudes of parents that influence children to drop out of formal education but more importantly it is cultural expectation - further education would mean taking on settled values and losing Traveller values.

Some Traveller children I knew were very academic but when I and the education welfare officer would talk with families about further schooling and things like college or university and the children and family would say without exception that way of life was not for them - it wasn't an option they would consider because they were Traveller.

Thank you puzzled! In answer to your question, I don't know for sure. On site visits when I asked Travellers to respect their settled neighbours, keep noise down and leave rubbish bagged for collection most complied and assured me that there were bad apples in every bunch but weren't them.

OrlandoWoolf · 08/04/2015 20:16

Do travellers as you've described ever try and "leave" their community? People must see the life others lead and want to lead that life. Is it hard to leave such a community?

I can't imagine being bought up in a culture where life is dictated to you - where you have to follow certain traditions and expectations because of your culture and background. I think that's wrong for anyone. No one's life should be dictated by their background.

twosides · 08/04/2015 20:16

Thank you bowlers yes to a large extent their way of life is incompatible with ours and this makes me sad in a way as I believe that their way of life is under threat and long term does not have a future as I believe government policy will make Travelling impossible to do.

This makes me sad as once a culture is lost it is gone for good. Their way is very different to ours but that doesn't de facto mean it is wrong - although that doesn't blind me to the harm that some encampments cause.

hazeyjane · 08/04/2015 20:22

I was at college with a girl whose family (Irish travelers) disowned her, because she was a lesbian - it must be really hard to stay within a family/group which is so restrictive.

twosides · 08/04/2015 20:24

Yes Orlando some Travellers may leave the culture. I have known some Traveller women leave after escaping domestic violence and having to leave the culture completely because of the fear that their ex partner and ex partner would track them down - it is very difficult to leave your husband because that would expose you to honor based violence.

Gypsies and Travelers are also fairly intolerant of lgbt so if someone wanted to come out as gay, they probably would have to leave the culture.

twosides · 08/04/2015 20:25

Ex partner's family

Cherriesandapples · 08/04/2015 20:45

Thing is though Twosides, everyones lives are changing, everyone's way if life is different to their parents. It makes me sad I'm no longer part of the culture I grew up in, partly because I'm now educated (not traveller but 1st of my family to not do what my family have done for centuries). Denying children the right to be educated isn't right.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 08/04/2015 20:55

well that answers the poo question.
twosides were there many complaints regarding the settled legal sites?

hazeyjane · 08/04/2015 20:59

What answers the poo question??!

Sparklingbrook · 08/04/2015 21:01

What Hazey said. Nothing has explained the poo question at all.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/04/2015 21:21

twosides I'm another one here grateful for you being willing to talk about it here.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 08/04/2015 21:23

I thought it might be down to chemical toilets and them being emptied whenn they get moved on at short notice but twosides says otherwise in her post

WorraLiberty · 08/04/2015 21:28

It doesn't answer why they don't bag their poo up and dispose of it properly.

Dogs shit naturally outside but owners are quite rightly expected to bag it up.

OrlandoWoolf · 08/04/2015 21:32

Denying children the right to be educated isn't right

No, it isn't right. Education is a right that every child should have. They should not be expected to do what their culture expects them to do.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 08/04/2015 21:33

i should have said that proves my theory wrong, there being a reason for the poo being outside other than them actually going outside and pooing. I was trying to figure out if there could be another reason for it, not saying anything excuses either pooing outside or leaving poo for others just wondering if maybe there was a reason ie tipped out caravan toilets

WorraLiberty · 08/04/2015 22:15

There are many cultures where lack of decent education is used to limit choice, and keep the children following in their family's footsteps.

It's not something I agree with. I'm just pointing out that it's not just travellers/gypsies who use this as a tool.

twosides · 08/04/2015 22:42

cherries and apples thank you for posting - I do agree that education and having a choice is a good thing. I am not sure what the answer is, but if we could find a place for Travellers in our culture and by perhaps setting aside legal stopping places or more sites then there wouldn't be a more them and us attitude and education would be more possible and more of an option.

Fifi on settled sites - assuming you mean local authority run sites - there are no complaints from the general public. They live on these sites like any other person who lives in a house - they have a trailer for general living and a brick wash house / toilet facilities.

Re the poo questions: Travellers would not bag up their poo like humans do with dog poo. Firstly they are not dogs but people so to liken them to animals would be seen as very offensive and b. Where would they put the poo? It's not as if a large encampment would all put human faeces in overflowing dog bins even if you got over the factor of likening them to dogs plus this would be very hazardous for waste collectors to dispose of because of human to human transmissible germs.

Likewise it's not really practicable to carry round a spade and dig a hole when you have many children running around and little time because you don't want to be caught by anyone pants down having a poo. Speed is of the essence.

If there were toilets, Travellers would use them. It is unfortunate that there are so few legal places to stop with facilities which mean when Travellers stop illegally there are no flushing loos.

It is unpleasant but the most sanitary and cheapest way for councils to deal with human waste is to simply leave it if it is spread thinly and not in large concentrations to degrade naturally over a week or so. If there is a larger toilet area with higher concentrations it is sprayed with disinfectant and left.

And...if people would rather have toilets provided on an unathorised encampment - that is a very expensive option - couple of thousand pounds would not be unusual - local authorities do not have the money

KateAdiesEarrings · 08/04/2015 22:43

Regarding education, it's not all travellers who subscribe to an attitude that DCs should leave school early. Travelling showpeople and settled Irish travellers have worked very hard over the years to ensure their DCs can both access education and that it isn't too disrupted when they travel.

They don't encourage them to leave school at a young age and actually there are many in the current generation who are studying at college or university. In fact, in those cases, it is the boys are who more likely to feel pressure to take over the running of the family business and hence leave education earlier than the girls. Most of the boys would still stay at school until at least 16 as running any business demands literacy.

Sparklingbrook · 08/04/2015 22:49

But toilet paper and nappies and sanitary towels in amongst the poo won't degrade. Sad
Some poor soul has the job of picking it all up. How do the travellers feel about that? Someone completely unconnected to them and their way of life is spending the day picking those things up and putting them in a bag because they didn't? That's what I don't get.

WorraLiberty · 08/04/2015 22:58

Re the poo questions: Travellers would not bag up their poo like humans do with dog poo. Firstly they are not dogs but people so to liken them to animals would be seen as very offensive and b. Where would they put the poo? It's not as if a large encampment would all put human faeces in overflowing dog bins even if you got over the factor of likening them to dogs plus this would be very hazardous for waste collectors to dispose of because of human to human transmissible germs.

WTF?

No-one's likening them to dogs. I merely said that dog owners are expected to clean up their animal's poo, so why wouldn't humans be expected to?

Where would they put the poo? With the rest of the bagged up rubbish that they should take to the dump before moving on. Or in my borough, as the council provides wheelie bins that are often not used...they could put it in the wheelie bin provided?

It's no more hazardous than lots of other unknown waste in wheelie bins. The refuse collector just attaches the bin to the back of the lorry, and the lorry lifts it and tips it...so none of the waste is touched by human hands.

Your previous posts come across as so well thought out and very unbiased and eloquent but this one has left me lost for words really.

Sparklingbrook · 08/04/2015 23:02

I am a bit lost too Worra.Bagged poo hazardous for waste collectors? How about the people doing the unbagged poo/nappy/toilet paper/ sanpro picking from the bushes/footpath?

WorraLiberty · 08/04/2015 23:08

Exactly Sparkling. I'm disappointed to read anyone defending this sort of behaviour.

The flies, the potential disease...all of it. Would anyone be happy to live amongst that or to have to deal with it unnecessarily in their day to day job?

I'd feel embarrassed if a member of McDonald's staff (for example) had to clean up and tidy a table after me and my kids. I'd die of shame rather than force someone else to clean up our shit.

Sparklingbrook · 08/04/2015 23:14

For me, out of all the 'not great' things the group of travellers do when they pitch up on the playing fields by the canal, using the towpath as a toilet is the one I can't get my head around.
It stretched for a good half a mile, and it looked like it had snowed the last time. I think they themselves were going further and further away to find somewhere not already covered in it for a place to go in.

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