To wish more people would consider adoption

[Kittykatmary]

I'm new to mumsnet and this is my first thread.

My family background, I have 5 children. DD1 is 16 is bio. Ds1 15 adopted. Ds2 15 is bio. Dd 9 bio. Dd 8 adopted.

I have always wanted a big family, and dh and I have had to have IVf twice as we could not conceive our last two bio children naturally.

Their is so many children that need adopting . Aibu to hope that more people could consider adoption.

I don't like calico's comments but I assume she is referring to one person she knows? How can you measure how much you love someone? Can you really compare love for different people? Some parents of birth children love them differently.

The only people who can truly say if they love their children differently are those who have bio and adopted children. Angelina Jolie said she loves her adopted children more.

I have adopted dc and what I do know is that I couldn't love them more than I do.

I have adopted dc and what I do know is that I couldn't love them more than I do

Absolutely And I also know that my kids are, beyond all shadow of doubt, my own.

So what it would be like to have a birth child, well I won't ever know and that doesn't matter, because they couldn't be more special than my 3 I did always dream of having a big family - 4 or 5 children- and that's what I had to let go of, rather than the way in which the children would become mine. But I didn't come to adoption through infertility so have had a very different journey than many

If you change love for care, taking responsibility for, wanting the best for? Who would not want to give those things to a child in their care? My thoughts are someone who should not have a child in their care.

I hardly know my dn as she lives abroad. I want what is best for her.

Hell, I would probably put the needs of my dc half sibling they and I never met on the same level as my dc, because they are family of my dc and an innocent child with my abusive ex as a parent.

I was adopted and what Calico has said resonates with me. If you google "how to be unadopted" or similar you will find many people who found the experience to be painful and not real. I am very sorry if this hurts people, that is not my intention. I think the whole system of adoption needs to be overhauled.

It is now accepted that if you split up with your partner and you have children together it is important that your children maintain a relationship with both birth parents, other than in extreme circumstances. The birth parent bond is seen as of great importance. Doctors also recognise the mother instincts - the birth mother - in cases of illness of inexplicable things the mother is asked for her instincts (not sure if that applies to all doctors but certainly it is my doctor's approach). I believe that if Oz requires the relationship with the birth parents to be maintained as a pp has said, they have got that right.

In terms of ownership - the adopting parents asserting MY children etc - why is there a need to transfer of legal ownership of a child? Especially if the birth parents do not agree to it? It seems barbaric.

There are alternative options. Eg it is accepted that some birth parents cannot or will not care for their children and in those cases an appointment of a legal guardian who does not replace the birth parents in all respects but does gain the responsibility and right to make decisions about their care is an alternative approach. SS to remain in contact for as long as is necessary and interim checks should be made (noting points made by pp and my own experience - problems started about 6 years in and it would have been helpful if there had been a relationship with an external SS who i could have turned to).

Children who are adopted will feel a sense of loss which is as painful as death. I would be amazed if anyone who has been adopted does not feel this. It is important that these feelings are understood and discussed as otherwise they are buried and can lead to crippling depression. This is going to be the case even if the adopted child is happy with the adoption and grateful and has feelings of anger about their birth parents. Sometimes it is not expressed to the adopted parent because of feelings of guilt and not wanting to cause pain. Any parent wanting to adopt because they want a child should be aware of this, and be prepared and mature enough to deal with it and constantly invite the child to talk about their feelings honestly.

In relation to the word "real" this is often used interchangeably with "birth" in common parlance and I really do not think offence should be taken. You can simply correct people gently - "I prefer the term birth parent" etc.

This is based on my own experience and I would welcome comments which agree or disagree but please don't discount my views as ignorant just because they aren't the same as yours. I have lived and breathed adoption most of my life just as many of you have.

Adopted - nobody can invalidate your experience. I'm sorry you feel such a sense of loss and grief.
The reason that we place children for adoption where possible, which is total and permanent rather than long term foster care or special guardianship, is that research (lots of research with lots of adopted and fostered people through childhood to adulthood) tells us that it has better outcomes. Of course that doesn't mean that it works out for every adopted person, and I'm sorry you are in the % that it wasn't successful for.

Adopted I can only echo Ehric's post.

Have you ever read The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier ? I understand from many adult adopted people I've spoken to that it sums up their feelings very well and is useful to adopted children when dealing with feeling of loss and grief.

Birth parents are of extreme importance. But so is my children's right to a life free from fear. It's only since contact with his birth mother has stopped, that my son has stopped soiling himself the night before, and the 2-3 nights after seeing her. Still, we speak to him almost daily about his early life, making it a normal part of conversation just like what we will have for dinner.

Adopted parents - at the end of the day - want to be parents. If a system were to be put into place whereby they weren't legal parents, merely guardians (I refuse to use the word 'ownership'), the number of parents coming forward would drop drastically.

And to all the people who would say 'so? If adopters aren't prepared to do it on those terms, they shouldn't be allowed to at all', let me refer you to Ehric's point... Outcomes for children who are given permanency (I.e. Adopted) are far better than those who are fostered/have another temporary arrangement long term.

My worry with adoption is that many/all of the children have problems, be them because of drugs taken by the mother whilst pregnant, or inherited mental health. Or because they are so badly damaged emotionally that their mental health is so poor.

Taking on an adopted child is not at all the same as your own children who you know all their background.

Ehric and Mrs Boreanaz, thank you for your responses, but can you give more info about the overwhelming research re better outcomes? I suspect it is out of date and that things will change. Failure rates for adoption are high and problems within adoption are frequent. Research about affect of early trauma on children is ongoing, and this would include loss of a birth parent.

I don't think that what I have suggested will meaner fewer children being helped - the continued contact of SS and additional resources (I omitted that key suggestion) will mean more people with the right skills will come forward. Possibly fewer people who just want to be parents will come forward. The rules about who is and is not suitable would also change, opening doors for older people. I would not adopt but I would do what I have suggested once my kids have grown up.

I haven't read the book, no.

adopted I think being adopted as opposed to Guardianship has helped my children.
The sense of permanence my eldest had after we had been to court meant she visibly relaxed.
She also knows we will always be there for her, in the same way she sees my 80yo parents being there for us. It's not just an until 18 or 25 deal.
Many children find ongoing visits of SS intrusive, unsettling and unwelcome. I agree that adoption isn't best for all children who can't live with their birth parents, but I honestly believe that for my children it is.

PS (sorry disjointed - RL gets in the way!) - in relation to the soiling situation then that sort of sensitive situation would need to be dealt with on a case by case basis. The same applies with abusive fathers in cases of separation. I think the permanency is key - that the idea is that people would be committing to permanency in the same way as they would re adoption.

Also, in relation my own sense of loss and grief (which I didn't write about, incidentally) in fact I was reunited eventually with birth parents - although I do remember how I felt for many years before that! I know many who have been adopted/been siblings in a family who adopted etc etc.

I could very easily have been put up for adoption. My bio mother (now dead) was an unstable alcoholic. I have absolutely no idea who my bio father is / was. My mother's parents informally adopted me and raised me as their youngest DC, but my mother continued to be a presence in my life, along with her string of fucking useless and / or abusive DPs. Her involvement was always on her terms and was totally disruptive. I eventually went NC at 18 because I couldn't cope anymore. Maybe its my baggage showing through, but my experience leaves me very uncomfortable with a strong emphasis on maintaining links with biological parents. For me, my 'parents' are the people who loved and cared for me - my maternal GPs. My biological parents can fuck right off.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that most children and young people in care would rather not have a social worker or an independent reviewing officer; looked after child reviews, statutory visits, statutory health checks and all the other things that mark out foster children as different.
Special guardianship is different to adoption but doesn't confer a lot of support - as far as I know people get a financial allowance (means tested) and that's about it.
www.baaf.org.uk/res
apt.rcpsych.org/content/13/4/305
adoptionresearchinitiative.org.uk/docs/ARi%20overview_WEB.pdf

The third one is long but probably helpful

Everyone has a very different experience of adoption - I'm sorry you have been through so much pain adopted

I absolutely would fundamentally disagree that we shouldn't have adoption. Not because it benefits me, because I would be my kids guardian if that was genuinely best for them. But for their sake, because I truly believe it is much better for them than guardianship. I don't have to make an educated guess with my eldest though, who is very vocal about the fact that adoption was the right thing for her, the most positive move in her childhood. It's not sunshine and unicorns and blah blah, no way. But it was the best option of the available ones, and has had a lasting positive impact. If someone in power were to suggest that guardianship were the better option in cases like hers, she'd be straight up writing angry letters and setting up petitions. She would be far from alone. I hate the thought that someone could deny that to another child in her position. But we need to do better at identifying children who would benefit from guardianship vs. adoption.

It's not about ownership. In those terms, children belong to no one at all, but themselves. But they are mine and FAR more importantly, I am theirs . I have made the strongest statement possible to them and the world that I belong to them. They can count on my love, on my dedication, my worries and nurture whether from near or far, forever and ever. In that sense, they own me! If you wanted to talk in terms of ownership (which I don't but my DD1 might) my DD1 would question why her birth parents should have legal status and 'own' her when they were so abusive and how could it not be better to cut the legal tie to ensure her protection throughout her life?

In terms of contact, my God I was so naively positive when I signed up to adopt. I was all about maintaining connections. I've learnt the hard way why that doesn't work out in reality The situation with soiling etc might sound unusual but in todays adoption, it's so sadly not at all unusual. Anecdotally I've known very few families for whom it's worked out all positively for the child. Because it's not a relinquished baby situation. Contact often means inviting chaos, abusive dynamics etc back into the childs life, unless carefully managed, for instance by vetted letters, and even then it can sometimes cause real problems. Which is why we've moved to a situation where vetted letters are the norm and visits are limited to case by case basis where there's evidence this might actually be beneficial. That said, I've found sibling contact much more beneficial on the whole, though still fraught with issues.

They did some extensive research in the US, mainly around private infant adoptions, which found one of the key predictors of contact which was beneficial for the child, was that the birth parents supported the adoption. This doesn't happen much in the UK. And guardianship won't help that situation because the birth parents won't support guardianship either if they want their children living with them.

Ultimately for me it comes down to, adoption is the right move for some children. That being the case, it's wrong to take that option away. The more options on the table for a child, the better our chances of getting it right overall. The less options on the table, the less chance of getting it right overall. So I supported Special Guardianship coming in in 2005 as a new and extra option for children. Not superior or inferior to adoption as a concept, but another option which individually will be better or worse.

My DH and I were approved for adoption after months and months of tests, home visits, paperwork, parenting courses. There were 10 other couples in our adoption group and we all stayed join touch - not one couple was found a child to adopt.

I would like to stress that although I appreciate that I am not being called ignorant (as Calico was) my views are not based solely on my own experience.

I would also like to stress to the adopted parents that none of my friends and colleagues who have confided that adoption did not work told their adoptive parents that, and nor did/have I. We are all bound by a silence based on knowing how much sacrifice and pain our adopted parents made and experienced. We tried to keep the situation on an even keel.

I have also experienced the soiling business, though (and I don't know whether this is the right thing to say but will say it) when my dc have accidents I usually say they have p'ed or pooped or had an accident - "soiling" sounds a bit distant and professional. If you see what I mean. I have also experienced the difficult interaction between adopted parents and birth parents.

adopted What I think you mean is that, because the language I used is 'professional and distant' (in your opinion), then my relationship with my son is 'professional and distant' and the implication from that and your previous posts is that this is inevitable because I didn't give birth to him. In your experience, (and that of your friends and colleagues), it is impossible for a relationship with an adoptive parent to be 'as good as' the one with a birth parent and the language I used (opposed to the language you would have used) merely proves the point.

Tell me (I'm genuinely interested). In cases of neglect/abuse, do you believe birth parents should have ongoing face to face contact with their children? Even if the children themselves don't want it?

On your earlier question about studies showing outcomes for children given permanence being, on the whole, better for those that aren't, I could link to a couple of studies but they are from the early 2000's and I would suspect they'd be dismissed as being outdated. Can you link to any that show the opposite is true?

On your point about being bound by a silence and therefore not telling your adopted parents that the 'adoption didn't work'. I don't know the circumstances under which you came to be adopted (relinquishment, abuse, neglect), but I know it's a very common feeling among adopted children. It's be of the tragedies of the adoption triangle where no one wins. But in my view, in some cases, adoption is still the only option and the best option.

one of the tragedies