To not be the least bit suprised by this ( Jihadi schoolgirls )

[ginghamcricketbox]

Talk about taking the piss.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3013703/Father-jihadi-bride-schoolgirl-attended-2012-Islamist-rally-attended-Lee-Rigby-s-killer-led-preacher-Anjem-Choudary.html

*mean not man.

I've not seen any anti muslim hatred on here hungry
Are you going to answer my question on how you think the government should respond regarding its foreign policy if a section of the public disagrees with it? should they change it? is that what you mean by resolving the problem?

I wasn't clear that I was answering why those who hate us move here and now my response is being taken totalky out of context.

So easy to through the word racism about hungry can you back it up.

One big change is due to the numbers of Muslims now in the UK, they can live their lives without socializing with westerners, unlike immigrants in the 70s/80s. Upshot is they are more religious than ever, more religious than the average person in the country they or their DPs came from.

Can we please make a distinction between 'conservative' and 'radical'. They are two very different things. I live in a so-called 'conservative' Muslim country and the government would NOT put up with this radicalized behavior.

Yes do enlighten us Hungry and also explain how if someone said - I hate Islam, how that would be interpreted as racist, my family ( siblings and Father), brought up catholic, HATE the religion, are they too, racist?

Hungry and lem can you also respond to the correlation between the actions of Muhammed & the first Caliphs and those of today's extremists and how this sits with your assertion that there is no basis in Islam for any of this behaviour.

Hillingdon please stop saying muslim leaders aren't condemning this shit because they are.

independent - muslim leaders condem

fatwa against those joining isis issued

world muslim leader condems extremism

mythicalchicken I think people on thread understand that. The man mentioned in the OP is presenting himself as conservative but is actually a radical. The conservative Muslims need to ensure they aren't being used as a cover for radicals.

Because gasoline if questioning gets a bit tricky it is an excellent winner of any argument to cry racist
still waiting for my question on how foreign policy decisions would be altered or not in line with muslims' opinions.

The mother of 5 whose son was jailed for 13 years for going to Syria who had reported him is interviewed in the Times today. He was persuaded to plead guilty and they thought he might get 4 years (he shot no one and of course presented no evidence in his defence ) and got 13. he came back and was arrested here.

There are increasing numbers of ex soldiers and others going abroad to fight against ISIS (which presumably means on the side of Assad). how on earth we decide what is illegal if people go abroad to do it (the women tend to go abroad to breed and be subject to a husband who in effect owns them rather than to fight).

We all know that the Koran encourages all kinds of things which are pretty dire (as indeed although not quite to the same extent does the new testatment) and that is why some muslims what a "Reformation" like Christianity had where you can throw out the silly bits about hands being chopped off and stoning and keep the better bits. Hopefully you could chuck out all the sexism at the same time.

Jilly leaving aside the other points, going to fight Isis doesn't necessarily mean that someone is with the pro-Assad forces.
The Free Syrian Army and Isis are two very different things, and indeed there are Druze and Kurds fighting with the Free Syrians.

Jilly there seems to be foreign support for the Kurds rather than Assad.

As a Muslim relative of mine said "there is no progressive Islam".

And why do people like the father in the op move to the UK, where they obviously disagree with the culture, kaws , lifestyles...? Anywhere he lives would be a steaming cesspit to him. But here he would get state benefits, housing, free medical care and education for the kids, no secret police monitoring his activities (with the risk of him and/or his family disappearing one fine day), no laws to stop him spouting crap and - here's the best bit - he can stand on the street, spouting bile and hate against the country, its people and its laws and get police protection whilst he does it.

What do you think the Saudi secret police would do with the likes of Chowdhry? Give him a cream tea and a medal, or 'vanish' him off the face of the earth?

I know but that's the conundrum. How does a nation decide what it allows its citizens to go abroad to do. Obviously we allow shooting without trial by the armed forces. We also allow people to work as mercenaries for hire in Africa - an old Etonian who even planned and staged managed a coup in Guinea and was jailed there got out and is now living in England - we don't say he was wrong or lock him up. We allow people I think to work for both sides as doctors. We allow "Thai brides" or other mail order brides to go and come across the globe so I am not sure how different the british girls' roles are - they go abroad to breed not to fight.

The Scot I am thinking about - ex soldier - who has gone abroad to fight for a second time came back first time because the group he was with were very socialist or something and he did not get on with them. His new lot include more right wing US fundamentalist Christians fighting in a sense their own jihad against the march of islamic state just as our ancestors did in the Crusades. He may be aligned with his unit to kurds this time. They are not easy issues and our terrorism legislation is so broad it can so easily do injustice.

Has it not been stated anyone fighting out on any side there would be prosecuted?

How does a nation decide what it allows its citizens to go abroad to do
There is a list of proscribed organisations which states that if you affiliate with them, join them, help them financially or in any other way or indeed communicate with them, then you are breaking the law. ISIS is obviously on the list; the Christian group AFAIK isn't so it is quite easy to decide who has broken the law.,

Apparently there is a Kurdish woman detained (on charges relating to the PKK) after attempting to go out to fight.

mistressmia I'm not really sure why you have addressed this question to me. I really don't care about arguing any theological issues. My only opinion on this whole issue is anyone who lives in this country should respect our way of life or fuck right off to where they came from. If you want a British passport you should support democracy, equal rights, tolerance and freedom of religion and speech. If you can't do that, this isn't the country for you. It makes me sick to my stomach that we have let people like Abase Hussen into this country and then gave him a pedestal to criticize the police. I really wish our government would wake up to the disaster they have caused by opening the borders over the last couple of decades.

If all Muslims were like these three, the world would be a happier place.

lem because on the other thread you stated the 'nothing to do with Islam' trope

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2326645-Aibu-to-think-the-parents-of-the-Syria-girls-need-to-take-a-bit-more-responsibility?msgid=53429672

I replied on that citing the inspirational sources.

To me we can monitor, banish and incarcerate individuals all we like, but unless we confront the absolute root source of their driver, then we'll continue forever on this trajectory with the problem just increasing ever more.

Oh I see mistressmia. Wow you have a lot of free time.