about man in coffee shop with scornful macho approach to his impending new baby

[eggyface]

Nice coffee shop down our way, i was in there this morning. Manager (let's call him Dan cos that's his name). He was joking to the staff "toddlers are like dogs, you just have to let them run around haha". All in good humour. I said "haha, have you got children?" he said pfb due in 2 weeks, and did I have any tips.

I thought for a moment whether to do the "it's all fine and lovely, congratulations" angle or the "it's really difficult, but you'll get through it" angle.

I ended up saying "it's amazing but I found it really, really hard. Nothing prepares you for the lack of sleep". He bristled slightly and said "Well, I wouldn't go into it with that negative attitude. I used to have insomnia so I only got a few hours each night. I think it should be something you can manage, right? I'm quite good at managing stuff."

At this point I became U... because it suddenly got VERY VERY important to me that he should UNDERSTAND. I said a variety of things... including baby might have reflux/colic and only sleep for 30 mins at a time, or only sleep on you for the first 6 months, and insomnia's bad I'm sure, but at least you have control over when you rest and how you manage the problem. I also said there are some things in life you can't 'manage' - having a baby for me was like a tsunami and all I could do was just hold on and cope with life for a while.

I know that was slightly BU because I should have nodded and smiled at that point and said how wonderful it would all be. Also, I know babies are for some people quite manageable.

But I was narked at him thinking my attitude was negative. AIBU to have got slightly triggered, and needing him to know what it was like for me? And was he BU to ask for tips, then tell me I had a negative attitude?!

For me insomnia was worse than a newborn. It may be that he has dealt with sleep deprivation before. Insomniacs do deal with that so actually he may be being pretty reasonable.)

Yabu insomnia is horrendous. We've had a terrible sleeping baby. But at least normal sleepers get sleep in between wake ups. I've had a year and a half of lying wide awake between wake ups. But im used to it.

yabu I really dislike this tendency to treat people having first babies as idiots. Yes, you don't know the absolute reality in advance but assuming they are capable, functioning adults they will work it out probably better than me just like everyone else.

When I was pregnant, all I heard was 'you'll never sleep again'. It was like a curse, I hated it. It felt like no one had anything positive to say.

I also had awful insomnia during pregnancy, and actually got more sleep when my baby was little. What happened to you was undoubtably tough, but it was your experience only. That chap wasn't scornful or macho in the slightest.

Just because you've had a shit time of it, it doesn make you the font of all knowledge on newborns. My twins slept all the time, in fact we had to set am alarm clock every 4 hours to wake them up to be fed. My 3rd child was a bit more "awake" but even so, it only lasted a couple of months, and as I was on mat leave I just caught up on sleep during the day.

I think you were bloody awful to piss on his chips in such a way.

Well the titel certainly doesnt match the story. I don't see that he was being matcho or scornful"" YABVU

I wonder how old your child is now eggyface ? Have you just been through what you describe ?

I think YABU , but you know that any way don't you . I did this once to a colleague who was expecting her first baby and asked me what childbirth was like , had to do lots of back peddling and 'oh I am sure I was just very unlucky , you will be fine '

I think you may need to reign it in in future, OP. Nobody really understands what its like to have a new baby until they have been there themselves, so no amount of helpful advice or scare mongering is going to prepare them.

I do understand, though . After I had my first baby by emergency section and was sleep deprived and depressed, I used to have to sit on my hands when friends talked about 'planning' their 'natural birth experience' or about how they werent planning on 'letting' the new baby change their lives too much.

You just have to perfect the smile and nod and 'thats lovely, how wonderful' response to all baby-related news.

I feel sorry for his wife/partner. Most likely he WILL be getting sleep because he won't be helping like he should because he thinks it's easy and will probably have an easy life.

"Some babies are hardwork, others are a piece of piss. Oh, and a bluberry muffin, please".

Job done.

I feel sorry for his wife/partner. Most likely he WILL be getting sleep because he won't be helping like he should because he thinks it's easy and will probably have an easy life.

How the hell did you work that out froma snippet of someone's conversation!

Yabvu. You realise he was making small talk? I'm sure he didn't really want a know it all over sharing what it was like for her - the emphasis being on the her.

Fwiw I found it really easy 3 times over - co-slept and barely woke to feed. So your experience isn't necessarily the same as everyone else's.

He asked you lightheartedly for tips.. You didn't give him any.. You just bombarded him with various scenarios as to why babies don't sleep.
Nice try at crushing his positive attitutude. Hope it didn't work.
YABU

Don't throw things at me but ... years of insomnia did make night feeds for my baby easier. You don't "control" insomnia any more than a baby btw.

I was just used to being awake at all hours. More so than DH.

...daytimes on my own with baby though? Totally in pieces, stressed and fearful. Full on PNA lucky me.

YABU I think, sorry.

I hated everyone telling me how hard it was going to be, how little sleep I would have etc. I just wanted to be excited! I had also struggled with lack of sleep throughout pregnancy so thought anyway it would be nicer to wake up and look after my new little baby than be up either in pain or needing to pee every hour! Think they were a bit gutted when my son slept through the night by 4 weeks old, only waking about twice for feeding before then!

I do realise not all babies are like this and now he is three he's not an easy child in every single way but sleep has always been his strong point! It's definitely best to let people experience things themselves as all babies are completely different.

Ad for triggered.
My PNA has been triggered in a coffee shop and I had a sweaty old mild panic attack. Someone had left peanut crumbs everywhere. DD did not have any reaction. Just me.

When someone cheerfully asks "Any tips?" of a complete stranger they are usually being lighthearted, jokey, just making conversation, and don't really want any tips. Who wants to have a heavy conversation about sleep deprivation with a random customer??

Surely the social convention is not to say something earnest, it's to say something a bit jokey back, or at least something in a lighthearted tone. So if do you want to talk about sleep, say "Ha ha, catch up on a bit of sleep now, because you won't be getting any soon!"
And then he can make a joke back about it's lucky he runs a coffee shop so he has an espresso machine for when things get really bad, or something like that.

He's just making a bit of small talk, not employing you as a sleep consultant.

OP, I know where you're coming from - I had a bloody awful time with DD1 and kind of feel the need for others to know that.

But but but ... IABU to feel like this and IWBU to try to tell soon to be parents all about it. Especially ones I don't know well.

First, most people don't have nearly as bad a time. Second, even if they do, they just won't get it until they are in the thick of it. No matter what you say now. so there is no point.

The only people who get my full hit-by-a-tsunami story now are those who declare they will "ensure their baby sleeps by using a routine" those ones deserve every last detail of how I discovered that doesn't always work...