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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

about man in coffee shop with scornful macho approach to his impending new baby

145 replies

eggyface · 25/03/2015 11:59

Nice coffee shop down our way, i was in there this morning. Manager (let's call him Dan cos that's his name). He was joking to the staff "toddlers are like dogs, you just have to let them run around haha". All in good humour. I said "haha, have you got children?" he said pfb due in 2 weeks, and did I have any tips.

I thought for a moment whether to do the "it's all fine and lovely, congratulations" angle or the "it's really difficult, but you'll get through it" angle.

I ended up saying "it's amazing but I found it really, really hard. Nothing prepares you for the lack of sleep". He bristled slightly and said "Well, I wouldn't go into it with that negative attitude. I used to have insomnia so I only got a few hours each night. I think it should be something you can manage, right? I'm quite good at managing stuff."

At this point I became U... because it suddenly got VERY VERY important to me that he should UNDERSTAND. I said a variety of things... including baby might have reflux/colic and only sleep for 30 mins at a time, or only sleep on you for the first 6 months, and insomnia's bad I'm sure, but at least you have control over when you rest and how you manage the problem. I also said there are some things in life you can't 'manage' - having a baby for me was like a tsunami and all I could do was just hold on and cope with life for a while.

I know that was slightly BU because I should have nodded and smiled at that point and said how wonderful it would all be. Also, I know babies are for some people quite manageable.

But I was narked at him thinking my attitude was negative. AIBU to have got slightly triggered, and needing him to know what it was like for me? And was he BU to ask for tips, then tell me I had a negative attitude?!

OP posts:
Original poster
eggyface · 25/03/2015 12:48

but hang on, why was it being negative saying one good thing "amazing" and another less good thing "unprepared for sleep deprivation"? Are we not allowed to say two things, one good one bad?

i totally acccept IWBU after he told me I was negative - yup - totally got it. I started over-sharing and I accept many people hear lots of negatives and he didn't need to know the reasons why I found the sleep thing hard.

but i still wonder why everyone thinks it was OK for him to ask me something, then tell me I had the wrong, negative attitude. Why couldn't he be the one to smile and nod, as well as me smiling and nodding?

OP posts:
murmuration · 25/03/2015 12:49

Actually, it really sounds to me like he was looking for reassurance and you kicked him when he was down. "I think it should be something you can manage, right? I'm quite good at managing stuff." should be answered, "Yes, of course it can be managed!"

And it was a bit projecting to say "Nothing prepares you for the lack of sleep" -- it would be better to speak of our yourself, e.g., "I was completely unprepared for the lack of sleep" There are more things than having a baby when people have to force themselves through lack of sleep. I actually found sleep much easier with a newborn (despite her having lots of problems and sleeping maybe 2 hours each night) than I did when having insomnia but needing to work 80-90hr weeks.

SisterConcepta · 25/03/2015 12:50

I hate the way so many people state it as a fact that having a baby is such hard work. It is for some - not for others.

Paintedpinksapphires · 25/03/2015 12:51

The problem is OP no one can really tell you about the reality being a parent, you need to experience it. and then wonder why no one told you

And of course not everyone's experience is the same. Throughout my entire pregnancy pretty much everyone except my DH, Mum and Sisters, told me not even to attempt breast feeding with twins. Why? Because they had (for whatever reason) found it too hard with one and couldn't conceive that it might be possible with two,

I ebf my DCs for more than a year. Should I have listened to all the 'negative' people?

When people ask for tips I say, go out lots in the evening, enjoy quiet bubble baths and lie ins now and buy lots of bibs.

googoodolly · 25/03/2015 12:51

Because he's excited about his first child! He knows it'll be exhausting and there'll be poo and vomit and screaming and sleep-deprivation but sometimes people just want to be told "it'll change your life and you won't regret it", not "you'll never get sleep and it'll be really hard, actually."

When people ask for advice they're normally meaning advice about brands of nappies maybe, or maybe what carseat is good or where to buy cheap toys/clothes/wipes. Unless someone asks you directly about the literally shitty aspects of it, it's better not to bring it up.

Original poster
eggyface · 25/03/2015 12:51

good point murmuration. I heard his tone more than his words, I should have listened to the words and been gentler.

OP posts:
wigglesrock · 25/03/2015 12:51

You were a bit over invested in the whole thing tbh. My first child was a piece of piss, I kept thinking I was doing something wrong, because helpful people had warned me about how my life was going to never be the same, I was never going to sleep again, how my head would be up my arse for the first year - all said in that self righteous smug tone.

Thetruthshallmakeyefret · 25/03/2015 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marshmallowpies · 25/03/2015 12:55

It's different for different people.

I've always had periods of insomnia & it got dreadful during my first pregnancy. When the baby arrived I had sleepless nights, sure, but when the baby slept I was out like a light when my head hit the pillow - and that never happens to me normally! To be so tired you go straight to sleep was something I rarely experienced as an adult so it was a bit of a hidden blessing of the early new baby days.

ReindeerBollocks · 25/03/2015 12:55

He asked for tips and was probably looking for a 'you'll be great response', while your initial response wasn't too bad, after he said he didn't want negativity, you should have left it there.

It clearly is your issue that you found a small baby hard work - some small babies don't sleep and it must be hell on earth, but it's different experiencing that, to being told.

I was always told DC2 would be a nightmare (DC1 was in hospital care for 6 months). DC2 was a breeze and I slept more once she was born than I did while pregnant. I have a team of DC if I could guarantee they were all like DC2.

See it just shows that all babies are different and parents have to learn to manage it in their own way. I never tell expectant parents how it'll be for them as you can't tell what type of baby they'll have.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 25/03/2015 12:57

Know it all parents are the most annoying know it alls around.

antumbra · 25/03/2015 12:59

Sorry OP- you sounded a bit manic. A smile and a " you will be fine" would have sufficed.

Not every parent suffers sleep deprivation. I didn't despite breastfeeding every two hours.

Your experience is not common to everyone.

DoJo · 25/03/2015 12:59

Telling someone they will probably be tired isn't really a tip - what on earth can he do to 'prepare' for that? A tip is 'make sure you have plenty of food you can eat with one hand' or 'don't worry about how your house looks when visitors come round', not just doom and gloom about sleeplessness which is surely the least surprising thing EVER about having a baby.

You minimising his experience of insomnia was unnecessarily dismissive too IMO, considering you were talking about how you weren't prepared for sleep deprivation and he was just explaining that he might be more prepared than most.

Momagain1 · 25/03/2015 13:00

Eggy be prepared to gush over the little one when you meet/see the pictures. Sooner or later he will be that dad and do something similiar. Maybe he will remember and get it. We all do it sooner or later. Hopefully only once. Hopefully with someone not part of your everyday life like a sil or bf.

practice some line like Happiness uses. You dont have to be smug when you say them.

Sallystyle · 25/03/2015 13:02

I had 5 babies.

4 of them were very vey easy. All slept through from 6 weeks old and I had to wake them up for feeds. I certainly did not suffer with a lack of sleep for a year, or anything close to it. Now my fifth? different story! colic baby, didn't sleep for longer than 10 minutes and would never let me put her down as she would just scream until she was sick. She was a nightmare baby.

YABU to assume that everyone will have a baby who doesn't sleep very well and YABU for being negative. You went on a rant because he believes that he can cope with the sleepless nights, and actually he might be well be able to.

Haggismcbaggis · 25/03/2015 13:05

Everyone secretly thinks that having kids won't be as hard for them as for other people. It's natures way of continuing the human race.

I soon learned Confused

XiCi · 25/03/2015 13:06

YABVU. Not everyone finds the baby months hard. I didn't, I found those months really easy, it was a lovely time in my life. I did not feel sleep deprived and so would agree with him that it was v easy to manage. Not everyone has the same experience as yourself. The
toddler years on the other hand.......

So yes, I think he was right about your being so negative when he is so looking forward to being a dad. It was unkind and unnecessary

RedToothBrush · 25/03/2015 13:06

Poor bloke. He's probably getting it off every customer.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 25/03/2015 13:06

DS2 is a terrible sleeper. When I went back to work, my colleague said she knows what it's like as she is an insomniac. I thought 'poor her, sleep deprivation is torture and whilst I'm finding it tough with a baby, I know it's temporary even though it feels like forever now, but for her this is a lifelong problem'. Parents really don't have the monopoly on exhaustion or tough times!

When I was pregnant I was furious - spittingly raging and fuming - with people (especially men!) whi insisted on telling me birth horror stories. I never asked, I never invited them to and I hate the way some people revel and delight in telling pregnant women about the agony and screaming for drugs and worse. As it happened, I had a serene waterbirth with no pain relief at all so they were wrong to try to terrify me in advance! Even if I had experienced a bad labour, how on earth would being scared witless have helped me in advance? Clear, factual advice is fine but war stories are not!

This bloke might have a terrible time ahead of him but actually he might find it really easy. I don't think it helps to 'warn' someone beyond a mild comment along the lines of it being hard work but worth it. And if their response is smug and/or dismissive, leave it. Delivering doomsday scenarios really won't help them.

antumbra · 25/03/2015 13:07

toddler years on the other hand....... but then I found the toddler years easy.Perhaps you are being a little negative too?

madreloco · 25/03/2015 13:08

So you harangued a man for having a positive attitude to his new baby? Of course YABVU. And what is macho about it? You also made it All About You, which is again VU.

I'm a long term insominiac. This means that when my babies didn't sleep much, I didn't find it as hard as people who are used to always sleeping all night. It wasn't new to me. In fact they often slept more than I did. I found lots of things difficult about having children, lack of sleep was never one of them.

keepsmiling2015 · 25/03/2015 13:10

Yabu. Come on he's just told you he's going to be a dad. You're supposed to say nice things and be happy for him (small talk with someone you don't really know) But you start being all doom and gloom. You sound like a barrel of fun - not.

Gruntfuttock · 25/03/2015 13:13

I think to characterise this man's optimism about first time fatherhood as "a scornful and macho approach to his impending new baby" is mean-spirited in the extreme.

XiCi · 25/03/2015 13:13

It was tongue in cheek antumbra
And was mentioned just to illustrate your very point, that not everyone's experience is the same. Hardly negative.

formerbabe · 25/03/2015 13:13

I think yabu...sounds like average small talk you make with shop assistants. Besides having a baby is not difficult for everyone...my first baby was a breeze. I didn't understand why other mums were struggling...it seemed easy to me. My second baby wiped that smug look off my face though Grin Everyone's experiences are different.