to wonder why you think I care about your marital status?

[JessieMcJessie]

I've just received an email from the personal assistant to someone I am meeting later today. Her standard signature at the bottom of the e-mail (name changed of course) is

Mrs Brenda Jones

I sometimes see communications from other women signed off "Brenda Jones (Mrs)"

Why on earth do people do this? Do any of you do this?

NB although her name is not really Brenda, it was an unmistakeably female name, so it wasn't to stop any confusion about her gender. And I myself have a unisex first name but I still never put Mrs on my letters or emails (nor Miss before I was married).

I suppose it's just old fashioned but how awful that society ever thought that marital status and ability to do a job were in any way connected.

Compos: Yeah, exactly. I meant that you don't need to go through a legal procedure (deed poll) to change it, you can call yourself what you like.

Although you do have to give a 'legal' name for certain purposes, like for ID documents or to the police (!) So either your birth name, your married name, or the name you've changed it to via deed poll.

I've been through all of this, as a friend of mine died last year just after getting married, and there was the whole kerfuffle with the coroner as she'd kind of changed her name but kind of not (added her wife's surname to her own birth name). It got a bit complicated!

Just an anecdote: my grandmother always called herself 'Mrs Joe Bloggs' (even after my granddad had died) , and got incredibly offended when some young upstart on the phone called her by her given name

As to why I changed my name: I like my husband's surname. Simple as that. Peoples' birth names are usually their fathers' anyway, which still amounts to a person being identified as attached to the man, rather than the woman who actually gave birth to them. Isn't that as much of an outdated convention as a wife taking her husband's name? Anyway, I thought about it and chose to change it. As is my right :)

Taking your husbands first name is going too far imo. It would be weird if someone called me john.

Nolim: She didn't take my granddad's given name, it was more just an old fashioned way of addressing a married or widowed woman.

I know. Still …

The being named after your father may be a sexist (but separate) practice, however that doesn't cancel out in any way the sexism of wives taking husband's names when virtually all men retain their own surname. Maybe if more women started keeping their own surnames we would see more children with their mother's surname in future, but while so many stick to the old fashioned taking the husband's surname it isn't really going to happen.

My granny was pretty old fashioned

shrugs I just think people should be able to choose without being judged as 'thick' or sexist or anything else. It's a personal choice and surely that's what feminism is all about? I wasn't particularly thinking about the sisterhood when I chose to change my name: I just liked the name.

Most men have their father's names, too, but they are not expected to change.

It's a personal choice and surely that's what feminism is all about?

No, that's not what feminism is all about.

Was that "Pot. Kettle" comment aimed at me, OurGlass? Because I certainly haven't said that women who choose not to change their names are dim, or thick or unimaginative, so not sure why that was called for. (As it happens I think it's great we have the choice whether to or not, and respect anyone's decision and assume they have put some thought into it one way or another.)

I took my husband's surname but I have never ever been Mrs John Closer. I know it's technically correct (Mrs Sarah Closer being the correct form of address for a divorcee, I think?) but that felt like an outdated total subsumption of identity. I still have one relative - not that old - who insists on sending post to Mr & Mrs J Closer.... Grrrrrr

Well, that's what it's about for me.

Anyway, over and out.

No, not you Closer, I was quoting Babbity. Sorry for confusion!

I like my changed married name. Never liked my father and his family are strange. My new name is much more unusual, flows off the tongue better and I seem to be the only one in the world - according to tinternet.

I did think about it though as it is a strange thing to do and I understand all the feminist arguments. Discussed it with my then husband to be an he was fine about keeping my original name but wanted children to have his name which I understand. I did it in stages and tried it out first to see if I liked the new name - and did.

Ah, OK OurGlass

I do wish we'd abolish titles on things. There is very little point in them any longer.

I recall years ago at work dealing with someone over the phone. I had picked up the phone with "Hello, X department, myfirstname surname speaking...." and we got through whatever the issue was. The man on the other end of the line needed to email my boss about something and then asked me, "So is it Miss or Mrs Surname? I want to tell your boss you were helpful".

I told him that I used Ms. and that I was the only person in the department with this name, so he could just put my name as I'd given him. He kept on and on and on. In the end, I pretended there was something wrong with the phone and hung up on him.

Finding this discussion fascinating - some opinions have been a bit, er, forthright, but naming and marriage is really on my mind lately. DP and I are saving for a new house and I know he would like to pop the question when I finish my MA later this year.

So what I would like is to be Ms (eventually replaced with Dr) Majoras Mask-DPsurname. Or DP-Mask. I don't know yet, it could work either way since the names go well together! DP wants to hyphenate too, to show his commitment to me as I am the last of the Masks. I just like the name, even though my dad and me aren't always on great terms my mum kept it after their divorce. We're not planning on having children so my name will be carried on in my publications, and I will publish as Dr M. Mask.

DP has many siblings and I am an only, so I very much appreciate him wanting to change for me. At first we had a chat and he did feel weird about it, but I asked if he would consider becoming a Mask and that was off the table, so that made him understand my reluctance! I imagine his dad and the male members of the family will joke about my well known feminist stance but I am hoping that our vows and our marriage will cement the idea of equal partnership and I know when I eventually go for my PhD he will be proud to be married as Mr and Dr. I am a bit worried since some of his uncles love talking about the X family tradition and the family as the X family, I don't want them to feel we're rejecting that but I will be annoyed if any of them suggest I'm controlling that decision for DP.

I guess I consider the surname thing of more importance because I never really address anyone as Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss anything. It says Miss on my bank card and I quite like it right now, I think it says 'young woman' since I got it at 16 when I started my first job. But I would like to apologise to everyone I've ever emailed for replying with 'Dear (name)' or when I know my lecturers well 'Hi (name)' which someone said they hated upthread I also sign off with Cheers

I have two people in my social circle who are long divorced and currently single. Both of them sign their name Mrs Jane Doe, as in sign cheques, documents, forms etc with Mrs as if it was part of their name . It would be pretty weird to use your title as part of your name whatever your marital status, but in their case it's barking. One of them even does it informally - on birthday cards she signs "Mrs D" . Neither has children btw, so it's nothing to do with that broader identity.

babbityann, can you please provide some kind of source to back up your claim that your 'real name' is still the one you were first given, regardless of changing name upon marriage or via deed poll? Because it sounds an awful lot like someone trying to state baseless opinion as fact.

babbity, you really are one of the most spectacularly rude people I have ever encountered on this forum. Do you really think that insulting people's intelligence is the best way to win people around to your point of view? Especially when you're a) not actually completely correct, and b) apparently unable to either type or copy and paste other's names correctly so making yourself look both rude and, indeed, a bit thick.

I like it if they put what they'd prefer to be called so that when I'm writing a letter to them I know whether to put Miss, Ms, Mrs or Mr. I think different people have different likes/dislikes. I never know what to do when you get an email from say, L Smith and you have to write a formal letter back to them. Dear Sir or Madam isn't appropriate because they're quite personal letters. So my guess is Mrs Brenda Jones is telling you she likes to be called "Mrs" in case you need to write to her.

I am so glad that we don't have to deal with all this palaver in the US. Men are Mr. Women are Ms. And no one just signs with an initial, so unless they have a unisex name, you can figure out which one to use.

Job done.

Agree with seneca. It totally make sense to use ms as the default female title.

Perhaps it's a clue as to what she wants to be called. She doesn't want to be called Brenda but she would prefer Mrs Jones, surely.