To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Thatsmyboys, but your earlier post said that such places should be reserved for state educated children. That would include the type of school I am talking about.

'Alan Turing' was a bit intellectual !.....

Oh Hak I think you and I both know several stats have been linked to you in the past re the m/c hoovering up the best comp places.So much so Sutton et al worry far,far more re this issue as it affects far more kids.Obviously you like to conveniently forget this as you can afford to bus your kid out to the better comp up the road.

Can't afford Alderley, Mobberley or Knutsford that's for sure.

Was looking at Timperley so I could get DD2/DS in AGGS/BS but its Not happening ! I am Destined to 'Die' in Folkestone.....

Ah, Smokepole, rotten luck.

AGGS is a good school and dd generally got on well with these, especially the older boys who she had great banter with

I thought Knutsford had its less expensive area has this changed now? i haven't been in years.

What about Stockport, have you tried here.
Is it just the cost or other factors? i know you have been looking forward to it.

He was but didn't he move to Surrey? After a few productive years in Bletchley of course!

Myredcardigan

Yes, it was and she got in It took us over a week to peel her off the ceiling.
She has a visit during April for 3 days, she has her bags packed already

Smokepole, have you looked at Stretford? Still in the grammar school area. The south bit of stockport has excellent primaries but secondaries are a mixed bag. Have a look at the catchment for Cheadle Hulme high School. There's a massive buzz about them at the moment. They have a new 6th form and teachers and pupils think it's the bee's knees. Parts of the catchment are very expensive but other parts far less so. I know a couple of parents who were intending to pay for secondary but after visiting chhs they've changed their mind. Def worth a look.

I know what I'm trying to say but can't say it. I'm 32 weeks pregnant and have basically lost all ability to speak in a coherent manner

I tutored.< shrugs>My kids are in a primary school that is in the lowest quintile for writing and maths. Are us parents in such schools just supposed to sit back and do nothing?

Would just like to add doing papers and bond books is still tutoring but sounds better.

Yay for morethan's dd! She must be a super talented girl. You should be hugely proud (which I'm sure you are!)

Thatsmyboys, don't worry, I know what you're saying . I'm just pointing out that not all state schools are anything like the same therefore you can't say they're all at a disadvantage.

myred

Thanks very much. This is why we are moving, or hoping too. Just so we are nearer for pick up and of course in case boarding doesn't work out. I'm sure it will though as she can't wait.

I forgot you lived in Alderley area. When I was growing up it was out of reach for the lowest paid working class but well in the reach of those on a moderate income. There were some real Cheshire people still there then too.
Wasn't there a time when the house prices shot up disproportionately to other areas. I wasn't in cheshire then, was working away but remember my dsis telling me and reading about it.

We're actually the back end of Wilmslow just where it meets Woodford. (totally outs self but I don't care) Alderley edge is pretty but has become a bit if a caricature to the extent that lots of professional families who could afford to live there actively avoid it and chose other local areas instead. There are some nice places to eat but I would never go there from thur-sun either for lunch or dinner as it's full of silly girls overly dressed up in the hope of catching the eye of a footballer or soap star. In reality they also avoid such places because of that. DH and I once popped into a little Italian restaurant in another Cheshire village about 5miles from AE after a walk. It was not at all bling or shiny but seemed unusually busy. It was only after sitting down we realised most of the restaurant was occupied by the Manchester United first team. It felt slightly awkward tbh although nobody made us feel unwelcome and we didn't stare or look like groupies in our walking boots and anoraks. I joke about the place but most people are just happy to live their lives. They're affluent but relatively normal. Very different from the 'Cheshire Set'.

I honestly wouldn't know the manc or any other footy team nor would I swoon. Different story for the brazil/italian/spanish teams I suppose.

I adore chester/chesire its a great place.

Overwhelmingly the children who pass the 11+ come from privileged backgrounds. I do not mean necessarily financially privileged- but from middle class, bookish homes with parents who understand how the system works and know how to manipulate it to their advantage

I see so having a home with books give you intelligence does it .

So if you go to school and are bright, having a great state primary ed, your going to fail the 11+ because of a lack of books .

The system is not complicated. If you want to pass the 11+ you need to be a bright all rounder, < this is the most important thing, material to work with and you need a good education and you need exam technique and exposure to past papers.

You also need your state school to tell you about the exam and help you pass it, should that seem to be an option.

The school stepping up and helping potential candidates would be a great starting place on all the FSM hype into gramm.

I recognised one very famous dark haired player who plays for Wales. DH recognised about 10. But no swooning, in fact it made us feel uncomfortable. I must say though they weren't at all rowdy or even that noisy. And I didn't notice empty champagne bottles cluttering the table. They just seemed to be drinking water or coke or a couple had red wine. All very calm, civilised and inconspicuous.

"I see so having a home with books give you intelligence does it .

So if you go to school and are bright, having a great state primary ed, your going to fail the 11+ because of a lack of books . "
Oh don't be silly. I'm not going to dignify those ridiculous comments with an answer. You know perfectly well what I mean.

I believe Hak has a point there tbh.

I don't believe that everyone with books in their house etc, could pass the 11+, but thats not what she is saying.

However, i have said this before but nobody from round here ever suggests theirs or others dc try for the one grammar we are just in catchment for.
The parents don't even know about it and nobody tells them.
They don't have parents who know the system and they aren't from middle class bookish parents. Some are bright and capable though and i know of several who would have gained a place.

My children go to a private school that is academically selective but not very selective and is about as academically good as my DWs grammar school that went Comprehensive in the 1980s.

In reality we would definitely put our children in a grammar rather than pay for what is essentially just an expensive grammar education that our local comprehensives cannot offer us.

I went to a very average selective boarding school in the 1970s because I was fairly clever, got a some government maintained grant funding. There was no local grammar schools.

I am sure that I and my children would not have been privately educated had a good average grammar alternative been available. Many private schools would close I am sure if grammar schools came back.

The problem is that if you are a supporter of grammar schools you either have to believe that anyone can pass the 11+ if they are clever enough and background makes no difference at all, OR accept that background makes a huge difference and just not care. The second option is a very unpalatable one and not many people have the hutzpah to express it openly. The first option is only tenable if you put your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to any discussion on the subject OR ridicule any such discussion OR discredit anyone putting forward the point of view.

Ditto the comp problem you like to ignore.

What am I ignoring?

To put it bluntly our town has two private secondary schools and they only survive because there are no grammar alternatives. If one of those magically turned into a state grammar everyone would choose that if the could and its academic position in the league table would rocket upwards as the competition to get in would be intense. The other private school would collapse academically and probably financially in the end. Two private schools have closed in the town in the last five years. There just isn't the money in the local economy.

The nearest big city to us does still have grammar schools that are intensively selective and some of the most academically gifted children in our town do commute in sixth form to those free grammar schools.

We do not live in the South East/London but are in fact thinking of sending DS1 to do boarding in sixth form in a very academic South East school. The private school he is at now simply isn't at a high enough academic standard and does not offer enough extra curricular activities for what we pay.