To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Red. There is probably 'little' difference between children attending Hale Prep and the local Primary school in Altrincham. 'Wait there is a difference'. The Hale Prep kids live in £2.5 Million houses, where as the State children have to do with living in £ 1 million pound houses There are at a huge disadvantage.!

The disadvantage does not stop there either, the Prep kids go on holiday to Barbados and Skiing to Meribel . The poor state kids after do with 2 weeks at club Med in Portugal ..

This is grossly unfair and Altrincham Boys/Girls should stop this abuse of state school children by forcing them to attend Withington Manchester high/Grammar , Kings or AESG. .....

Have to do with 2 weeks Club Med...

Look, seriously, I'm not saying it's at all fair. It really is shit that some kids are disadvantaged through their school and they deserve a helping hand to enable them to reach their potential. I'm just saying that that disadvantage does not apply to all state primaries, certainly not in Cheshire. The difference is nominal and many parents make the choice based on what they need rather than being restrained by income. I'm currently off following an op but we both work full time with 4 kids. The private sector suits us because wraparound is 7.45-6.30 and all the extra curricular stuff they enjoy can be done at school such as tennis, rugby, swimming etc. other parents at home with just 2 kids might decide it's easier to ferry their kids back and girth to these after school. My kids really do not have any academic advantage over those at my local catchment nor over those at the Hale primaries that Smokepole refers to.

But it's not about privileged children accessing grammar schools, my redcardigan. You can be wealthy and not send your kids to a private school.

Children at private schools are at more of an advantage, academically than state educated children. Fact.

Grammar schools locally to me are just like private schools. They are becoming incredibly elitist. There is also a fear ingrained into parents that if child ends up at the local they will somehow have failed and end up a drug taking junkie. It turns normal, rational parents into utter loons.

I find the whole thing utterly depressing.

*the local comp

'You can be wealthy and not send your kids to a private school'

Did you read my posts? Because that was pretty much the point I was making. That the dividing line between having advantage and privilege and not having it doesn't lie along the line if whether you pay for primary or not. Certainly not in my area.

And your 'fact' is not always a fact I'm afraid. The child of wealthy parents who attend the very high achieving state primary almost exclusively with other children of affluent parents whose school expect almost every child to leave with at least a L5 partly because of their upbringing and partly due to the enormous amount of tutoring going on is not an an academic disadvantage.

Surely the main difference is that prep schools prepare children for entrance exams whereas state primary schools generally don't.

I don't think this is particularly a state/private issue. It's a privilege/disadvantage issue. Overwhelmingly the children who pass the 11+ come from privileged backgrounds. I do not mean necessarily financially privileged- but from middle class, bookish homes with parents who understand how the system works and know how to manipulate it to their advantage.

You would never guess from MN that there were only about 164 grammar schools left in England or that the news at the weekend was that most parents are being squeezed out of private education as it gets too expensive.

Would a Private or Grammar school education have given me any more knowledge or understanding how to write a 1500 word essay about Friedrich Hayek (Minimalist Government Theory) for My OU Assignment....

If it wouldn't have , I have not been 'disadvantaged' by not having either of those two chances..

Of course people ' buy' the place at a grammar and then they pedal the myth it is good for social mobility!

The point is, mehitabel, that there is a political head of steam building for more. Or at least for letting the existing ones get bigger.

Hak. I came from a 'Privileged' wealthy background and I failed my 11+....

Mehitab. Its 163 now Chatham House/ Clarendon in Ramsgate are 1 grammar school .

But I am talking about normal primary schools which have a mixed in take.

My son is not being tutored because I don't want him to he tutored to death and then flounder in a grammar school. He would struggle.

I had a child for tea this week who is being tutored who bought up schools and said that the local comp was for thickos and that the teachers were crap. He is 9?!

But Hak far more parents buy places in the best state comps.The places they buy through housing cost far,far more than a few sessions of tutoring which often costs less than a monthly mobile tariff.It is perfectly possible to do DIY prep.

11 grammar school myths and the actual facts
One myth being it was popular with parents in 1950s and 60s - it wasn't. It never can be if at least 75% of parents will have a child who fails.
I for one can't vote for any party who wants to extend them.

"But Hak far more parents buy places in the best state comps"

Any stats for that?

And even if it's true- why is the fact that another bit of the system is also unfair relevant?

Smokepole

Ha Ha I loved your last post and dh has asked why I'm grinning like a Cheshire Cat.

DD isn't going back to her activities in the area next year, she says it isn't reversed snobbery, but she doesn't wear the right blazer.
Kids can pick up on these things, even though we think they are paranoid.

Dh said he has never seen such a group of rude and entitled people in his life He has done pick up a few times recently.

Will pm you soon x

Hakluyt is absolutely correct.
In my little old head there are a two things that I would ideally do and neither involve more grammar schools.
The first involves more, properly targeted, money for comprehensives. Some are shockingly poor and unfit for purpose such as those experienced by a few posters on this thread. Most provide a decent education, some provide a truly outstanding education. Teachers need to be open to change and new ideas and techniques. Not refusing to have a student in with you or an NQT observe you or using the lesson plan you wrote in 1993. Government needs to suck up the cost; schools need the hip replacement not a better walking stick to help them hobble on. Film good practice and make it available. Less secrecy, more sharing of ideas. LAs need sitting out too. Many of the poor comprehensives are being run by shoddy LAs. People talk about teachers being out if touch but they have no idea the mind numbing, head against the wall task that is trying to get anyone at County to do anything that isn't written in triplicate already.

Ok, secondly, this doesn't apply to me as I teach in the state sector and know it well but the perception that many fee paying parents have about the state sector. Many are terrified , most have no reason to be. Many pay to avoid bullying; there's bullying everywhere. Many pay because they think their child will get higher results; this can, be true but too many don't even look at the results if their local comp. do a good many fee paying parents need the chance to get to know the state sector before making an informed choice. Lots will still go private for many reasons. We do. But I think quite a few will think again and opt for the good education being provided by their local state and use the money for enrichment at home instead. That's what I think anyway.

@ Smokepole! Are you sure you don't belong up here. Not with us lot in Wilmslow but with the old codgers in Alderley who are always on the news complaining about how their village used to be dignified and intellectual 20yrs ago and now beautiful old houses are torn down to be replaced by Disney style castles with turrets!

Morethan, was it your DD who was taking the exam for C (music)?

Sorry, posted too soon.
If so, hope it went well!