To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Funny how nobody ever thinks their child is going to be one of the disruptive ones. Or go to a secondary modern..............

My experiences of a modern school in the 80s was that about 50% did not want to be there! Kids would rather have been in the 'Arcade'.....

However, having on occasions spoken to most of DD1s teachers and evidence from DD (on occasions she was used by the school to control year 7s when yr13). It appears the school was dragged down by a hardcore of 50-60 pupils (ok 7%). These 50-60 pupils were always fighting swearing answering back refusing to do homework 'wagging' ETC unfortunately they get other pupils joining in with their behaviour. The teachers said it is always the same faces holding back the school and damaging other pupils education. These pupils cannot be excluded , because there is no where for them to go hence the merry go round continues.

It is always the same every year, 10-12 pupils come to the school with the same intention of causing mayhem throughout their school life. This means the school always has about being 50- 60 problem kids in the school

Is this behaviour not similary in most 'Comprehensive schools ?...

"Is this behaviour not similary in most 'Comprehensive schools ?..."

In a word, no.

Its true, some Dc simply do not want to be at school. What do you do with them.

I would agree with Blu that there seems to be very active use of 'on report', internal exclusion, managed moves and movement to settings such as PRUs, as well as a real 'upping of the game' in terms iof behaviour management.

"Is this behaviour not similary in most 'Comprehensive schools ?..."

Not round here. In S London, gang central, blah blah. Very high indices of deprivation, disadvantage and disaffection in the community as a whole.

The schools are very hot on behaviour, teamwork, attitude, positive stuff, etc. Classroom management is generally very good. They have strong support teams, there is no bullying that isn't immediately dealt with in DC's comprehensive (and I have it from a parent who did report bullying - she said it was dealt with instantly and effectively - they have a thorough process).

Also, if kids are removed to a PRU the PRU provision is great and many kids do thrive there with the reduced curriculum and a size and style that can be more individual to their needs. (I work with then / have contact with them, so get to know the kids in PRUs at first hand). They certainly aren't written off in a PRU.

My DCs comp didn't have disruption - parents would have taken children away if there had been.

There were no behaviour problems in my sec mod. It was very small and the ones who had learning difficulties were kept in one class with the same teacher for most subjects. The Head believed in turning out good citizens and was very proud of the reputation. It wasn't an exaggeration to say it had the reputation for the best behaviour in town - it did.

I think some people get their ideas on comps from TV.
It is not like that in many.
My DS had a disruptive maths class one year and I phoned up and it was sorted. He was also bullied on one occasion, I was phoned up before he got home when it was explained what happened and how they had sorted it.

And this is why all comps should be brought up to scratch, and provide a good wide range of education for everyone.

Which is why the conversation should be about 'how do I get my nephews' school to be as good for them as I think the 'honeypot' school would be' rather than 'it is so unfair that my nephews can't go to the honeypot school'. No school has infinitely elastic walls, so the only sane way to move forward is to improve the 'non honeyp[ot' schools, including educating parents to become more sophisticated about looking at data, rather than believing a school is the best because it has the best raw results.

A superselecitve could be failing if 90% of its children get all A / A* grades - its selectivity may be such that 100% of children should achieve those grades. Equally a comprehensive could be succeeding because 20% of its children get such grades - if only 5% of children would be predicted to get them from their performance on arrival.

Exactly Blu - a good wide range of education for everyone. It seems defeatist to me to get more grammar schools in order to lift the best and not worry about the other 75%. A child in a bottom set is just as deserving of a first class education, without disruption, as a child in the top set.

I think some people get their ideas on comps from TV

Your probably right there, I know Grange Hill left a lasting impression on me, Ziggy (?) and the heroin? Scarred me for weeks. But I loved the theme tune.

Returning to the OP for a moment, I don't think that more grammar schools = fewer private ones.

There are a group of parents who would simply never countenance state education, however good, because they want one or more of:

• Exceptional sports facilities, and very long hours devoted to it (regardless of spoprtiness of DC)
• Ditto music and drama
• A particular 'style' of education / teaching
• A particular peer group (tbh this is the most common - they want 'people like us')
• Boarding or extremely long hours of after school care
• A 'name' / 'brand'

Many grammar school areas also have a thriving market in private primary 'crammers', taking advantage of the fact that state primaries are not allowed to prepare for the 11+ and offering 7+ years of specific 11+ coaching, and access to selected tutors for the final year before the exam.

Of course, there are also those children whose parents might countenance a grammar school, but not the secondary modern that their child has been selected (or anti-selected) for.

It was my original point-many more private schools would be needed for those who wouldn't accept a sec mod.