Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

664 replies

smokepole · 16/03/2015 14:13

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

OP posts:
Original poster
smokepole · 23/03/2015 10:31

Mehitabel 6. You talk about 'Modern' schools in a 1970s and 80s way and do not appreciate that there are many such schools that are excellent . They offer educations that aiming for students to gain B grades at GCSE not A* or A grades but B and C grades and are excellent at this. One way these schools could be vastly improved is if the 15% who are disruptive by not wanting to be there or 'troublesome' were sent to a school specialising in 'vocational' and helping them find pathways forward in life that would be great.

DD1s Modern school spent a huge amount of time dealing with the 15% or so of students behaviour and lack of interest. The time taken dealing with this behaviour and the disruption caused to other pupils, probably cost many pupils a least 1 grade per GCSE.

DD1 got a lot out of her school not least an understanding of all types of people and backgrounds in the end it was the right school for her. However, she should have been in a grammar at 11.

I would support a grammar school in every town , provided the 'right' pupils were educated there. Therefore I support 'Modern schools' in every town, provided the 'troublesome' 15 % were not there enabling the remaining pupils a chance of a good education (undisturbed) gaining B and C grades.

OP posts:
Mehitabel6 · 23/03/2015 17:10

I love the way that it is assumed the disruptive pupils are in the sec mod school! I went to one but we had the best reputation for behaviour in the town. We even got a maths teacher who couldn't cope in the girls grammar!
The problem with a grammar/sec modern in every town is that it separates the top from the bottom, but it is useless for the middle and where ever you put that line some will be on the wrong side.
I object strongly to the idea that a child will only get a B or less at GCSE based on a test taken when they are only 10 yrs old.

By all means separate them but only when about 14 yrs.
I would still love someone to give me a reason why my non academic son can't attend the same school as his academic brother. Why not?

Floisme · 23/03/2015 17:14

My son got A*, A, B and C grades. Where would you have sent him?

Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 17:18

"My son got A*, A, B and C grades. Where would you have sent him?"

Never mind that- how did you get past the filter to post on Mumsnet in the first place? Grin

Original poster
smokepole · 23/03/2015 17:20

Did he score over 50 points from his best 8 subjects ! A* 8 A 7 B 6 C 5 if so he would be 'Grammar' bound....

OP posts:
Floisme · 23/03/2015 17:21

I know Grin

Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 17:24

"I would still love someone to give me a reason why my non academic son can't attend the same school as his academic brother. Why not?"

There were only ever two posters with the sheer brass neck to say, and sadly one has gone and the other is only around occasionally. Everyone else weasels around- on one memorable occasion someone said it was better for the non academic to be in a different school so they wouldn't be jealous of the high fliers, and could get on with preparing for their mundane lives without being given an unsettling glimpse of the sunlit uplands of learning beyond their grasp.........

Floisme · 23/03/2015 17:24

Sorry crosspost. The 'I know' was to Hakluyt.

Smokepole I've no idea what you're talking about Grin Luckily (in my opinion) we live in a fully comprehensive area so it's never been an issue.

Original poster
smokepole · 23/03/2015 17:27

Floisme. Many grammar schools ask for about 50 points for admission to their sixth form which roughly is 2 A and 6 B grade GCSEs.

OP posts:
Mehitabel6 · 23/03/2015 17:30

I have asked before and never got an answer.
He wasn't jealous of the high flyers- he is still friends with them today. His fiancé stayed in for 6th form and went to a RG university. He left at 16 yrs and has done very well indeed. He isn't stupid- just not academic.

LePetitMarseillais · 23/03/2015 17:35

No I don't want the Kent model in every town but the model most have ie a grammar you can choose to apply for with no boundaries so there are a huge number of feeder schools across a big distance.

And Hak perhaps you could explain why my nephews can't go to the Oustanding comp down their road that people would sell a kidney to get into.The fact they don't live in a £300 house even closer surely shouldn't be an issue.

Floisme · 23/03/2015 17:36

Thanks Smokepole though to be honest I don't really care whether or not he'd have got in. I'm just thankful that we didn't have to navigate what sounds like a ludicrous, very stressful and thoroughly antiquated children's cattle market.

Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 17:43

No I don't want the Kent model in every town but the model most have ie a grammar you can choose to apply for with no boundaries so there are a huge number of feeder schools across a big distance.

Sorry? Don't understand this- what do you mean the "model most have"?

And Hak perhaps you could explain why my nephews can't go to the Oustanding comp down their road that people would sell a kidney to get into.The fact they don't live in a £300 house even closer surely shouldn't be an issue

No, I can't. As I said, happy to join you on a thread about admissions policies. I favour a lottery system, I think.

teacherwith2kids · 23/03/2015 17:44

LePetit,

Another way of putting thart question is

'What are the outcomes for children of your nephews' ability in the school that they can go to? What are the barriers to them getting outcomes the same as those at the Outstanding comp [it may be that there is no difference in outcomes for that ability group - digging below the surface of the data, it may be that e.g. the outcomes for high ability children is the same at both, just the % of HA is smaller so the headline results look different]? How can the parents work with the school to lower those barriers?'

ie aim to move all schools to getting great results for all ability groups, rather than trying to pack all children into 1 'honeypot' school.

LePetitMarseillais · 23/03/2015 17:46

Not interested in outcomes they want to go to the school that best suits them thanks.

Hak I outlined it,it's there for you to read.Hmm

teacherwith2kids · 23/03/2015 17:49

Like Hak, though, I think admissions need looking at - either a re-drawing of catchment boundaries to take in more varied areas of a town, or a lottery, or some kind of fair banding.

teacherwith2kids · 23/03/2015 17:50

LePetit,

So not interested in data, just interested in prejudice... nice.

teacherwith2kids · 23/03/2015 17:52

So what information do you have that the Oustanding (by ofsted) comp would indeed be better for your nephews? Just its Outstanding label?? So if it were to drop to Requires Improvement, as many previously highly rated schools have, it would suddenly become NOT suitable for them??

Beloved72 · 23/03/2015 18:01

"Not interested in outcomes they want to go to the school that best suits them thanks"

What wouldn't suit them about a well run comprehensive with a representative intake and high achieving top sets?

Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 18:03

"No I don't want the Kent model in every town but the model most have ie a grammar you can choose to apply for with no boundaries so there are a huge number of feeder schools across a big distance."

I don't understand this. Are you talking about a super selective taking the top 2%? Because what you are describing is sort of the Kent system-you can apply from wherever you like and if you pass the test and there's a place you'll get in.

Original poster
smokepole · 23/03/2015 18:04

Mehitab. Don't you think you education was damaged by the 15% or so mentioned by me upfront. These pupils have to be taken by 'modern' schools because they have nowhere else to go . They are dumped upon 'modern' schools which is totally unfair on the pupils and teachers. I am convinced that if these pupils were removed in to a third type of school the pupils at the non selective schools would improve their results considerably.

OP posts:
Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 18:05

And what is it about your nephews and this school that makes them a particularly good fit for each other?

teacherwith2kids · 23/03/2015 18:07

A way schools have been improed locally is for the 'honeypot' school to partner with a less well-regarded school with a neighbouring catchment - the latter now oversubscribed tioo. Has this been tried? Could your nephews' parents suggest it?

Hakluyt · 23/03/2015 18:07

Smoke- where do you get your 15% from?

Blu · 23/03/2015 18:22

Academies have far fewer barriers to getting kids removed; very disruptive kids are managed out and / or sent to a PRU.

DS's comp had removed 2 kids by the end of Yr7.

From the top sets....

Swipe left for the next trending thread