To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

The % pass doesn't seem to be evenly distributed though:

"THE PROVISIONAL FIGURE FOR 2015 INTAKE IS 17% FOR THE VALE AND 42% FOR THE CHILTERNS"

Which again is down to the demographics of those parts of Bucks.....

Goodbye - In Bucks all pupils sit the test unless their parent asks for them to be removed.

And Bucks still has a 12+ and 13+ for pupils to try again if they don't pass the 11+.

In bucks the grammar test is sat at school. And a mock 2 days earlier. And the parents are informed about it by school in Y5. And they just have a pass / fail model where 25% of pupils get in

Thats really interesting as usually they don't even mention it, or so I have heard.

Do they also do exam techniques etc, tell pupils strength and weakness.

I am skeptical at the support these pupils would get, in fact, some one posted a while ago that mostly private pupils in Bucks are getting in, they said

" if you want your dc to go to Bucks Grammar, dont send them to bucks state primary" followed by tables.

SHELL from what you have said - is it easy to get into grammars round there then compared to other areas?

Are the middle classes who would defect to private in the absence of grammars over-represented in grammars?

If so, they really need to increase the FSM population.

I realize this is probably an obvious point made several times over.

AlPacinos - bucks grammars are easy to get into as in they're not super selective. If you pass the test you will get a grammar school place.

You do a mock in class.

I don't think you need prepping or tutoring for a bucks grammar. You need to be in the top 25% of the population. (More or less)

And I know plenty of people in bucks who aren't at all stressed about the 11+. Plenty who aren't stressed because they're happy with the non grammar school (which is a good school, I'd be v happy to send my DC there) and plenty who aren't stressed because they're confident their child will get in.

It's really no big deal in this part of bucks.

I have worked in several schools in bucks. 11+ training is a massive business here. The kids start in year 4 and go every week.

If they pass and are in catchment they will get a place but it's not true around here to say it's not a big deal. The non grammar schools are dire, one isn't quite as bad as the others but I still wouldn't have sent my DCs there.

Bucks is a big county though. I'm guessing the other poster is in the south. I'm in the north.

You need to show 121/141 to get a place without appealing.

Yes, I'm in the south.

And I know some people do do tutoring and get worked up about it. But lots don't. And lots do get in with no tutoring.

You look at the stats for great marlow school or chalfont community college or Beaconsfield school or Langley academy.

They all do better than lots of London schools. I would have sent my DC to any of them.

(Those are non grammar schools)

I have a friend who lives in Boxmoor which is Herts and her 2 kids both travel over the border (only about 3miles) to a Bucks Grammar so they can't be that oversubscribed. Apparently they're not the only ones and lots of kids from that bit of Herts do the same. I don't know anything about her local secondary or whether Bucks have restrictions on how many kids they take from Herts but I do know the distance was similar.

slough grammar schools have free places which can't be filled because not enough applicants get over 111 (ie top 30%)

Bucks also allocated places outside the borough every year - ie has more places than needed.

Ms Shell Shocked looking at the 'Upper' schools in Buckinghamshire on the Performance tables website, It is obvious they do ok with results averaging over 50% GCSE across them . However, it is clear the low FSM (Waddesdon 1.8% FSM 76% GCSE) may be a factor in these relatively decent results.

Of course the low FSM is a factor. It's bucks......

What is your point? You think bucks should encourage more people to live off benefits?

My point is that though there are 'modern schools' there are not typical modern schools with very small FSM %. Waddesdon is what I describe as a 'Selective Modern' School (there are a few out there).

Well they're typical in bucks.

Sorry for grammar.....

My dcs (4th starting in Sept) will all have been to grammar schools. Oldest 3 have already worked their way through the system. There are no other local schools I would have been prepared to send them to - and I am fully aware that that is because we have grammar schools here. No proper comprehensives.

I am a teacher. I can't afford the fees for the local private school - currently almost £15k for year 7. I don't think they are that fantastic either - pupils who move to local grammars for 6th form struggle because they are not quite so used to thinking for themselves. I count myself very very lucky. My academic children have found schools and teachers to cater to their needs.

So does Buckinghamshire as an LEA only have 1.8% of its children qualifying for FSM?

It's a massive county. Large parts of it are very wealthy.

That 1.8% FSM in the non grammar will reflect it's catchment.

My DSs primary has almost no FSM. And it's not a well thought of or well regarded school. It's not even full. He's only in a class of 23. It's just the local village school for local village children.

Ok, I just checked the stats for the closest grammar and non grammar to the village school.

The grammar school has 4% FSM. The non grammar has 8%.

That doesn't seem an unreasonable difference to me. Doesn't seem like FSM is stopping people from going to the grammar.

The non grammar GCSE stats look absolutely fine, and (based on the stats) is certainly a school I'd send my DC to. I've actually never heard a bad word said about the non grammar.

So what's the FSM% for Bucks as a whole?