To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Msshellshocked

BULLSHIT!!
I have just looked at the admission policies of all grammar schools in Slough and none of them say anything at all about children on FSMs having priority.Nothing at all!!!

I have heard that some grammar schools have stated that if children with FSM or SEN meet the 'benchmark' which in Kent was 360 (think its lower now) will be admitted. Simon Langton Boys in Canterbury certainly admit 3 boys to year 7 each year with ASD symptoms . Whether they would have scored 'enough' for entry to the school if they did not have ASD , I don't know.

Alice. Whether Slough make allowances , I don't know but certainly some areas do make allowances for FSM/SEN.

30 grammar schools have changed their admissions arrangements so that, if they are oversubscribed, they will admit candidates who have passed the test and qualify for FSM before applying catchment criteria. The test score remains the same for all. Another 90 grammars are applying to do the same next year. It will make very little difference because it's passing the test that's the hurdle for disadvantaged children.

An interesting fact- Simon Langton Boys has had no year 7s attracting pupil premium funding for the past two years. So unless you think poor children are inherently less clever than better off ones............

"Simon Langton Boys in Canterbury certainly admit 3 boys to year 7 each year with ASD symptoms "

Well they do if they pass the test-

A little pedantic, Tough, but Skinners haven't introduced a lower pass mark for pupils on FSM - they'll still have to get a mark considerably higher than the Kent Test pass mark. It only works because Skinners is a super-selective. And 5 students... looks suspiciously like lip service.

Skinners are still consulting. And are a superselctive so the 5 prospective FSM candidates would still have to get damn near full marks. So I don't think the Merlot drinkers of Tunbridg Wells need to worry too much.........

Alice - no way am I talking bullshit. Here's the admission policy. See clause 7.a

www.lgs.slough.sch.uk/_files/PDfs/Admission%20stuff/A162F89F13F0B3F5218432EF5B65A568.pdf

An apology would be nice.....

I would support a lower pass mark for children on FSM. However, we also need to consider the large chunk of children whose parental income just misses qualifying for FSM. Perhaps there should be a % of spaces reserved for kids who miss out on FSM but who are still clearly economically disadvantaged. Perhaps children falling below a certain income threshold could submit a primary school reference. Then when the grammar school come to allocate those places they look at the children who applied under this criteria, alongside their score, alongside the report from their teacher/HT at their current school.

What is really like to be able to do is break the cycle for those bright kids who in theory would benefit hugely from a grammar school education for who in reality, would flounder because their home life is basically shit and as far away from study conducive as it's possible to get. How to help those kids is a massive issue.

Accountants all over the country would be rubbing their hands with glee. Just go for comprehensive schools. It's the only way.

Mind you, the kids with the same home life who are less bright are no less in need of a way out.
I think we could help many of them by helping shift the focus of school towards a trade from 14. I know this happens very successfully in some areas.

msshellshocked

They still don't seem to attract FSM children, either because they don't even apply, or because they don't get the lower mark.*

State primary schools do not inform their brighter pupils about the 11+.

So dc without parents who want it, have NO CHANCE, and that is from the very place supposed to help with their education.

Force states to prepare and help ALL brighter pupils do the test, inform all parents about it, then come back and see what FSM are doing.

That's strange, because private schools are the very opposite of a meritocracy. It's buying privilege

If all state schools were excellent, could you still buy privilege? Some people are just buying a half decent education, one which isn't available to them locally.

I would support a lower pass mark for children on FSM

Before supporting the lower pass mark, lets start by actually telling them about the 11+, and giving them some help with the exams and timing and tips.

• Just go for comprehensive schools. It's the only way

No thanks, a one size fits all for education would be even more disastrous.

the only evidence on this thread shows grammer areas do better for all pupils than fully comprehensive(see my link above). Unless anyone has any other, I think argument over and grammers schools improve things for everybody.

Why do people all think comprehensive schools are "one size fits all"?

In bucks the grammar test is sat at school. And a mock 2 days earlier. And the parents are informed about it by school in Y5. And they just have a pass / fail model where 25% of pupils get in.

And still they have very low levels of FSM passing the test.

So the problem is not (in bucks) with the primaries.

In bucks, because the accept 25%, you really don't need to be tutored to pass.

Does Bucks really take 50%. I'm in Bucks and was told the pass makr this year was 121. 25% of children don't have an IQ od 121 or above do they?

121 is nothing to do with IQ. The results are scaled so that 25% ( or possibly 30% I can't quite remember) pass every year.

The pass mark in Bucks is 121 every year.

Could I ask, what happens to super-smart kids with disengaged parents - can their teachers put them forward for the test?