To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

Hak, it is completely different, but the sense of having to pass for their future is probably the same.
I asked dd what she would do if she didn't get in, how she would feel etc.
Her response was quite laid back really, that she would continue in the same direction no matter what. She then started a rendition of Que sera sera
I suppose its the same as somebody not passing 11+ and being determined to do their best with what they have.

She would however, not be surrounded by friends who did get in. She would not, presumably, be elbowed off the pavement by former friends who did get in. She would not live for the next 7 years in a community where the "successes" all went to one school and the "failures" to another.

Yeah. Que Sera, Sera. Easy for the "successes" to sing that!

PP has now reared its head and is now making it easier for PP students to get into grammar schools with much, much lower minimum qualifiying scores. It is also make it more difficult for non PP students to get into GS. I know as my next son has to deal with extra hurdles to get in. Unfair, yes. But he will have to work harder and smarter. We are slowly but surely seeing the "comprehensivisation" of our grammar schools.

Has the penny dropped HermiaDream!!!!?!

My mother and father were both working class children who benefited from the 1944 education act, getting to grammar school and then Oxford. My uncle failed the 11+ and has suffered in many ways from a crippling sense of inferiority ever since. Ironically, he owns a successful business so would be perceived by others to have done perfectly well for himself, but there's no getting away from his feeling now for over 60 years that his sister is so much cleverer than he is (she isn't).
And the 11+ is one of very few exams that are a straightforward pass or fail. The driving test is, but you can retake that. It isn't even like a job application when you can convince yourself that they're looking for 'fit' as much as ability. It's either pass (you're in, champagne, hurrah, relief) or fail (you didn't get in, um, never mind eh, que sera sera, you'll do just as well in the comprehensive school that isn't fully comprehensive on the grounds that most of the academic students have been creamed off the top).
It's awful to hear of students that have been failed by schools. But it is individual schools that have failed them -- not, as it used to be, a whole system.

Hak

She had no idea she had passed when she sang it, she was just really laid back and knew if she didn't get in she hadn't failed it just wasn't for her.
She's chuffed to bits now of course, but she wouldn't have been too disappointed as we don't set our kids up with passing or failing.

Not elbowed off the pavement but worse than that, showing up to her activities and facing everybody who knew, a couple of whom had got in.
This couple getting all the kudos and special treatment, more opportunities.

Yes, it's very unfair when children who don't get many breaks get some breaks, isn't it? Some kids get all the breaks, huh?

To theoriginalsteamingnit. Don't kid yourself. It those in the middle who get fucked over by the system!!!!!!

TOSN

I would love to see kids from here gaining the opportunities presented from grammar schools.
I regret no H.edding the older dc, but knew nothing about it when they were younger.
Had I done so, none of my dc would have stepped foot in a local high school.
Not that Ds1 would have passed 11+ and neither would dd, but there are plenty of bright kids round here.
If the south don't want them, we'll have them up here. Why should the south have better opportunities
Send them up here.

To make it clear, I meant it is anyone from the Middle class that gets fucked over by our great institutions

"To make it clear, I meant it is anyone from the Middle class that gets fucked over by our great institutions"

Hey, great satire! You are Marcus Brigstock and I claim my £5. Can you do the rest of your routine now?

Satire, yes. True, yes.

friendlyLadybird

No champagne and a pat on the back from us, it was chippy tea and trying to peel dd from the ceiling.
I suppose if its made into a big deal there will be a huge fallout if dc don't pass the test.
I really can't ever imagine being so worked up about it when I see so little choice for the majority in other areas.
At least your bright dc get the opportunity, you have to see that its not the idea of grammar schools that is wrong but maybe the way they are managed or parental expectations or a mix of both.

So tell me more about how the middle classes are fucked over?

Cannot claim bursaries for private school. Derisory scholarships are just useless. Over taxed. On top of that I pay 10k a year to commute by train. Many I know are in the same boat. Don't have the luxury of claiming child benefits, child credits....need I go on and explain the bloody obvious.

If you are middle class, it's perfunctory that you will be fucked over. All opportunities we get we strive and work hard for, fair enough. But the added obstacles don't help.

Won't somebody please think of the middle classes? If some kid has had the poor sense to be born into a family that attracts PP, they should suck up the concomitant disadvantage long term and in as many areas of life as possible, not take the precious few opportunities the benighted middle class hold a righteous claim to, right?

You know tax credit is based on how much you earn, right? Like, if you don't earn very much, you get some, and if you do, you don't?

CB, I agree, taking from the 'purse to the wallet' is a shitty Tory policy.

As for bursaries, well private schools are businesses. They don't give a fuck about anyone except paying customers: why would they offer generous bursaries to anyone? A few poor children who might boost their results and their profile, fine, but they're not there to help, are they?

Hang on, I accept it is fair to give the poor dc a chance. But if it is at the expense of a child, who through no fault of his/her own is born into a more affluent family then surely such a mechanism is both unedifying, repulsive and unfair, in this case, to the Middle class child.

Portico, are you taking the piss?

I'm a private school teacher in a grammar school area. There are loads of private schools here. I can't speak for all private schools but more grammars would make little, if any, difference to our intake because:

1. 2/3rds of our children are too young for grammar school anyway.
2. We are totally non academically selective and 2/3rds would struggle to keep up at grammar school. Even fewer would pass the 11+
3. We teach curriculum content above the NC and in small classes (12-18 pupils per class). This means that we have children who would achieve a L6 if we took SATS and who are academically ahead of their peers who still fail the 11+ because their VR/NVR are just not that high. They would be ideal grammar school children but they don't get in because their innate intelligence isn't high. About 6-8 children take the 11+ each year from our school. We normally expect 4-6 to pass it. Generally 1-3 actually pass.
4. We have parents with generations of public school education behind them. They don't understand the state system and have never considered it.
5. We have many children of all abilities with complex SN. The small, nurturing environment suits them in a way the very successful, pressured and large grammar environment wouldn't.

I'm weeping into my Sauvignon Blanc and roasted vegetable cous cous as I think of the awful disadvantage my children face. If only they qualified for FSM, it would be so much fairer.....