To think that if grammar schools were more available , private schools would almost 'vanish'

[smokepole]

The percentage of pupils educated in private schools is about 7% of the school population, similarly 4% are educated in grammar schools. I am wondering if there was a 'nationally' available network of about 350 grammar schools (including Boarding provision) , what percentage of parents would still use private education.

No random nec, I am telling you what I feel and what I know speaking to other parents feel too.

Jesus, check your privilege already.

Overtaxed, indeed. The very idea.

I have to pay for my children's pitta breads every day because through no fault of their own they were born to parents who could feed, clothe and house them comfortably. When do my babies get some kinda break? Why can't they have free dinners, just because I can afford to pay for their dinners? And acTually I'd rather they had lunch every day at the French bistro, rather than a pack up, so why don't I get any help with that?

See Hakluyt we do agree!!!!. Like you, I do prefer the Savignon Blanc at Waitrose........

"I am telling you what I feel and what I know speaking to other parents feel too."

Had you ever considered thinking instead? I can highly recommend it.........

Theoriginaltheoriginalsteamingnit.....see, we do agree after all.....

Portico, have you any idea of the basket of advantages, educationally speaking, that MC children have? The ability to buy books, usually academically-successful parents who support their children's ambitions, the ability to travel and see the world outside the narrow confines of the immediate town / area, etc etc etc etc. Not to mention the basics of enough food, warm and stable housing, sufficient space and decent clothing.

OK, some families on FSM are poor in monetary terms but rich in terms of parental education and ambition. But many others do live much 'narrower', less 'education focused' lives than their MC counterparts. To give PP children a level of priority in GS admissions (should the child's family apply, which of course is not a given) is such a tiny drop in the ocean set against the 10-11 years of advantage enjoyed by the average MC child for protests against it to be ludicrous.

I don't think we do agree, but the strategy of suggesting we do whilst knowing we don't indicates a certain point in the discussion.

Do you think hakluyt, as it is so easy to be continually pompous.

Theoriginaltheoriginalsteamingnit..... I was taking the proverbial pi##

There is also the point, of course, that with paid for tutoring being almost a given in most GS areas, the FSM child with a lower score (whose parents could not pay for tutoring) may well be equally bright, if not more so, than the MC child. Just not tutored.

Yes, I sensed an effortful attempt at humour. It is to be hoped that something of the 'check your privilege' argument has registered, though.

And may well attend a less good primary school, because those tend to be concentrated in areas of high deprivation, putting FSM children at still further disadvantage...

But hey, never let a fact get in the way of a good prejudice.

Check your privilege. What do you mean, seriously?

teacher yes. One late lamented poster whose child was an utter dead cert for grammar still had coaching because she simply found it fun and challenging, and every other local child had coaching, and she wouldn't even have been eligible for coaching had she not been a shoe-in... Against such odds and entitlement, what chance does the child with PP have?

So, who is more deserving of a GS place, through being 'brighter':

• A well and expensively tutored MC child, well travelled, with well educated parents, from an outstanding primary with a wholly MC intake, who gets a high but not exceptional mark in the 11+ OR

• An untutored child from a family with very little money, no history of educational excellence, and from a failing primary, but who obtains a lower but still decent mark in the exam?

You're identifying as middle class, portico, yes?

Grammar Schools have got to get the FSM % up to at least a 5% average nationally. Currently the grammar school average is 2% FSM This is roughly 5-6 times lower the national average of about 12%. The fairest way to achieve this modest increase is to make the goalposts a bit bigger for FSM children.

(I will identify as MC. I recognise that my children have huge advantages, as any MC parent would, surely?)

I think I am middle class. Not sure where in this range though.

I agree, but portico claims that the later is 'stealing' places unfairly from the former, and it is the MC children who are being discriminated against...